PMP Mod v2.02 & PMP Mod AVC v1.02

kaveman · Post by **kaveman** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 2:44 am

wooolF wrote:
psp360 wrote:k0nan/xxxstarmanxxx/ and wooolF: thanks for the feedback, I feel impowered now...I am a nut for high quilty...makes the eyecandy super good, so dont' really care if it takes several hours. I like the dumd look on my friends faces when i show them a movie clip and tell them its a rip and is running from my card....in fact I think the madagascar trailer is better than DVD quality...I have never seen a DVD movie look that good. I guess the secret is in that sharpening setting. So miemt11 if it is not to much trouble can you add that sharpening option as a default setting in your next release.

thanks
couldn't be agreed any more =) quality is the most important thing ;) (otherwise you could just watch MP4). And yeh, miemt11, could be nice if you've added it =)

Those sharpening options (-sws) are already in his app - Lanczos is the preferred hi quality sharpening, with bicubic being a decent default. What's still to be incorporated is multi-pass encoding which would significantly help with quality and help prevent artifacting on high-motion framesets and complex detail scenes.

Be patient guys ;) remember so much progress has already been made in 2 weeks since the first release of PMP Mod.

miemt11 - i noticed something else that might be useful to consider when you have time. I've been converting some hi-res 1920x1080i HDTV broadcasts to PMP format, and the quality is --amazing-- however, MPEG2 transport streams sometime incorrectly flag the FPS as 23.96 or 29.97 within the same stream, which causes mencoder to re-adjust (as currently the input fps is used for output) meaning lost sync. Indeed some files I have are progressive 1280x720p at 59.94fps, which of course totally screws the pmp file. It would be useful to have 4 tick boxes with the options of (input (default), 23.96, 25, 29.97) so you can over-ride the input frame-rate. This of course can be done through command line switches too, if it's possible to ensure the switches don't conflict.

best, KV

hyedipin · Post by **hyedipin** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 2:56 am

kaveman,
while I agree your suggestions to miemt11 are pretty interesting and worth while incorporating, those might be best left as "advanced" controls if he ends up including those in the release.

Be patient guys ;) remember so much progress has already been made in 2 weeks since the first release of PMP Mod.

Agreed %100 !! And these last 10 days have been incredible to PSP's video scene, and probably did what sony has been keeping in its pocket for future to keep PSP alive, giving just a bit at a time with each new F/W release.

There are still a lot of advanced options already in the screen shot he gave earlier.

miemt11, the best way is probably to hide anything but the essential options, and enable/unhide them with a button (otherwise set as default/blank). Some people, including me, could get scared seeing such a complicated structure. :)

kaveman · Post by **kaveman** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 3:04 am

hyedipin wrote:kaveman,
while I agree your suggestions to miemt11 are pretty interesting and worth while incorporating, those might be best left as "advanced" controls if he ends up including those in the release.

Be patient guys ;) remember so much progress has already been made in 2 weeks since the first release of PMP Mod.
Agreed %100 !! And these last 10 days have been incredible to PSP's video scene, and probably did what sony has been keeping in its pocket for future to keep PSP alive, giving just a bit at a time with each new F/W release.

There are still a lot of advanced options already in the screen shot he gave earlier.

miemt11, the best way is probably to hide anything but the essential options, and enable/unhide them with a button (otherwise set as default/blank). Some people, including me, could get scared seeing such a complicated structure. :)

Oh yes, I agree - my suggestions are deliberately geared towards extensibility - i.e making it as easy to use as it currently is, but as it's such a good front-end to mencoder, allowing advanced users to tweak settings will mean over time as those that are familiar with encoding strategies can feedback new 'defaults' that would benefit the simple point-and-click users.

Key to this is what miemt11 has already graciously done with the command line parsing - which will allow this sort of experimenting - my only concern is how hard-coded options (such as framerate) will be handled when a conflicting setting is put into one of the parameter boxes... just things for miemt11 to consider ;) - I'm a command line boy anyway (bring back the Amiga!) so happy to play with mencoder's switchs manually.

psp360 · Post by **psp360** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 3:07 am

hey kaveman: thanks for the tip, will try that option on my next movie. everyone just keep up the good work!

wooolF · Post by **wooolF** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 3:23 am

kaveman wrote:Those sharpening options (-sws) are already in his app - Lanczos is the preferred hi quality sharpening, with bicubic being a decent default.

Bah, I feel stupid lol... I used lanczos myself... From page 18 from this thread:

wooolF wrote:Here's my try with WinMEnc 0.5x

Source:
Pulp Fiction DVD, +4mbps video stream

Result:
11.76mb
+2min @ 482x272
-sws 9 (lanczos)
XViD 2 pass @ 1200kbps
MP3 Stereo 112kbps 44100Hz with +3 gain and volume normalize

Note: This was encoded directly from DVD (decrypted)

Link : PULP_FICTION.XviD.pmp

BTW, if anyone seen my Pulp Fiction, is there any way to remove the black bars at the top/bottom and still keep the normal ratio? I tried once, but all subjects were 1.5-1.7 higher that they should've been. Kinda confused here...

kaveman · Post by **kaveman** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 3:49 am

wooolF wrote:
BTW, if anyone seen my Pulp Fiction, is there any way to remove the black bars at the top/bottom and still keep the normal ratio? I tried once, but all subjects were 1.5-1.7 higher that they should've been. Kinda confused here...

the next version of miemt11's app will allow you to crop the left and right sides so you effectively 'zoom' into the video. Videora already has the option for this btw.

Remember you will lose some of the image from the left and right of the original, but this is what happens anyway when a panorama movie (2.35:1 aspect) is converted to standard widescreen (16:9) as on WS tv's and the PSP.

psp360 · Post by **psp360** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 3:50 am

wooolF: hey I just downloaded and watched your work...I like it, but it is still not as sharp as the spiderman trailer and if you used the same sharpness as jonny then how come the difference. I cheked VirtualDubMod and in the filter option it has a filter for sharpening, I just want to know if this is the same (lanczos) that kaveman is refering to as already in miemt11's app or if other elements contributed to a better sharpness on spiderman trailer...sorry if this is a dumb question...just need to know...thanks

kaveman · Post by **kaveman** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 3:58 am

psp360 wrote:wooolF: hey I just downloaded and watched your work...I like it, but it is still not as sharp as the spiderman trailer and if you used the same sharpness as jonny then how come the difference. I cheked VirtualDubMod and in the filter option it has a filter for sharpening, I just want to know if this is the same (lanczos) that kaveman is refering to as already in miemt11's app or if other elements contributed to a better sharpness on spiderman trailer...sorry if this is a dumb question...just need to know...thanks

I think the issue is more to do with the scene selected in Pulp Fiction - there's not that much detail in it to start with (edge variance and detailed environments) and not much action so it may not look as sharp. The spidey trailer is action and has lots of scenery which helps highlight the sharpness.

I'll do a sample vid shortly using PMP Simple and Lanczos to highlight the quality of sharpening.. (when I find a suitable clip to convert!)

psp360 · Post by **psp360** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 4:29 am

kaveman: thanks for your feedback, will look out for your clip:)

yoshaw · Post by **yoshaw** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 4:39 am

miemt11 wrote:Pre-Final build of PMP Simple Converter 0.07 screenshot preview

You can see and compare the feature that had added since
Version 0.06

From version 0.07 skin is changable

%%
If anyone interest to create their own skin for PMP Simple Converter

Please follow the Skin Image Spec:

Resolution = 890x550
Format = jpeg and png (for transparency)
transparency = Yellow

%%

Releasing soon...

Excellent effort without a doubt. Great work on the custom filter additions.

I have a few suggestions that would hopefully get implemented in the near future versions.

1) It would be greatly helpful if you can include a button(or popup link) next to both the custom filter options in STEP 4 of the Simple Converter. Pressing it should take the user to a list that specifies each custom filters task and it's use for the movie about to be encoded.

2) Better yet, if the same button(or link) takes us to a pop up screen that has all the different filter options. With radio buttons or checkboxes next to each one of them. Once selected and then OK'd. It'd take us back to the main screen with all those customized filters neatly copied themselves in the relevant spaces. Oh, and a rollover of the mouse over each filters name(in the popup window with checkboxes) should give the detailed description of its usage for the encoding.

A good example of no.2 is how we open address book in yahoo or hotmail and check several addresses atonce which then neatly get arranged in the To, CC or BCC field. Now that would be a classical addition to Simple Converter and should definitely mark the end for Virtualdub Mod even for some of us experienced encoders.

kaveman · Post by **kaveman** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 4:59 am

Okay here's a quick and dirty encode:

Source: King Kong Movie Trailer, 1280x720 HDTV, AC3 5.1 Sound, 23.976fps

Conversion Settings (using PMP Simple Convertor)
Audio: 160kbps CBR Stereo, +1 Gain
Video: 1152kbps, 1pass, HQ mode, Lanczos Sharpening, 480x272, 23.796fps
Filesize: 22.7mb

As you can see the quality and sharpness is great. The only thing you may notice is some artifacting (blocking) and some slight blurring at times. This is due to the encoding being single pass. Two-pass encoding would increase the quality by quite some margin, especially when using a more modest bitrate (i.e. <768).

Some parts of the video to watch for (city scene with cars, water scenes, island scenes with natives) highlight the crispness of the video. It is a bit dark and quiet, but mallocs mods will help with that.

There are other factors that would affect output sharpness, aside from number of passes, mainly being source quality. This is why I've used a HDTV source for purity, but of course a well mastered DVD would be just as good when scaling to 480x272.

King Kong Trailer

Enjoy!

Regards, KV

LwRedStorm · Post by **LwRedStorm** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 5:12 am

Hi everyone,

Excuse me for my poor english, and many many thanks for jonny, malloc and the others.

The question : I know the pmp container is used for stability, sync and surely speed reasons but it would be interesting to make pmpmod compatible with all the knows formats (as far as you use libav codec), like avc mp4 and avi for exemple.

The reason : a 480x272 encoded movie can be easily watched on TV, furthermore when it is "sharpen filtered". If you work on a avi version of pmpmod, it will be possible to encode movies to the pmp format and to watch them on TV or on PSP when we want, without difficulties.

I hope many people will love the idea.

If you don't want to do this, or if it is just impossible for sync reasons or for psp capabilities reasons, i will understand.

Keep your excellent work

dbl · Post by **dbl** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 5:34 am

kaveman wrote: Those sharpening options (-sws) are already in his app - Lanczos is the preferred hi quality sharpening, with bicubic being a decent default. What's still to be incorporated is multi-pass encoding which would significantly help with quality and help prevent artifacting on high-motion framesets and complex detail scenes.

This isn't quite true.
Lanczos is the algorithm used to resize the video down to 480x272.
Sharpness (in this case) is a VirtualDub filter which is applied additionally.

As far as I know there is no equivalent available for mencoder so this won't be possible using miemts software.

kaveman · Post by **kaveman** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 5:46 am

dbl wrote:
kaveman wrote: Those sharpening options (-sws) are already in his app - Lanczos is the preferred hi quality sharpening, with bicubic being a decent default. What's still to be incorporated is multi-pass encoding which would significantly help with quality and help prevent artifacting on high-motion framesets and complex detail scenes.
This isn't quite true.
Lanczos is the algorithm used to resize the video down to 480x272.
Sharpness (in this case) is a VirtualDub filter which is applied additionally.

As far as I know there is no equivalent available for mencoder so this won't be possible using miemts software.

Ah I see. I wasn't aware you were talking about filter sharpening, rather than resize-sharpening.

Yes mencoder doesn't do this afaik, though it might be possible to enable this in some way with multiple pass encoding... perhaps.

jonny · Post by **jonny** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 5:48 am

The question : I know the pmp container is used for stability, sync and surely speed reasons but it would be interesting to make pmpmod compatible with all the knows formats (as far as you use libav codec), like avc mp4 and avi for exemple.

you really understimate the time required to properly do all the (boring) things above (only to obtain a result that will probably be always a little bit inferior to the current one)
we must stay with foots on earth, really! :)

hyedipin · Post by **hyedipin** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 6:01 am

Or if we could test the pmp's on windows..
For example now I downloaded kaveman's king kong rip, but I have to wait until I get home to test those, or work on my trials.. I wish someone or jonny made a pmp player maybe with PSP skin working buttons and all (sort of PMP Emulator, so we could test our work without transferring to PSP (i know it won't be as accurate, but at least we can check if it runs at all or see if there are any jitters/blocks, etc..) *forget that, scratch that, we can play them on mplayer (Simple PMP Converter, choose PMP, [Play])..

No sound, but still serves the purpose.

kaveman what was your source file-size and format? mpeg?

I couldn't watch Pulp Fiction using Simple PMP Converter's play, but i could watch king kong and tekken rips..

argandona · Post by **argandona** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 6:04 am

jonny wrote:
you really understimate the time required to properly do all the (boring) things above (only to obtain a result that will probably be always a little bit inferior to the current one)
we must stay with foots on earth, really! :)
I agree completely. Some people just don't understand how time consuming coding is. All of you should install the dev tools and code the "hello world" test, you'll see that it's not as easy as you would think.

kaveman · Post by **kaveman** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 6:11 am

hyedipin wrote:*forget that, scratch that, we can play them on mplayer (Simple PMP Converter, choose PMP, [Play]).. No sound, but still serves the purpose.

Cor! Nice find. Aspect ratio seems a bit messed, but it works.

hyedipin wrote: kaveman what was your source file-size and format? mpeg?

Original file was 1280x720, XVID, 2974kbps Video, AC3 384kbps Audio, 58.9mb

I chose an XVID file as a 1280x720p MPEG2 file would have been 59.96fps which would have broken the encoder/player (max really is 29.97 to be safe)

hyedipin wrote:I couldn't watch Pulp Fiction using Simple PMP Converter's play, but i could watch king kong and tekken rips..

Guess that might be as mencoder was used to encode... and PMP Simple just calls mplayer.

hyedipin · Post by **hyedipin** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 6:18 am

Cor! Nice find. Aspect ratio seems a bit messed, but it works.

You/We might as well have dragged and dropped the pmp directly over mPlayer.exe...

about source, I see, i should have thought, since you (or someone) have already posted about crashing due to FPS somewhere above..

Guess that might be as mencoder was used to encode... and PMPSimple just calls mplayer.

Right, but doesn't pmp simple converter use mencoder? I also had another one that came out of videora, which didn't play either. I thought you used the same way to encode pulp fiction and king kong.

let me rewind throught the topic a bit..
*edit, right, WinMEnc 0.5x was used,
therefore PMP Simple (ultimately mPlayer) won't play(preview) any PMP encoded in something else.
But after all they both use mencoder to encode the source, right?

Compatible (mplayer playable) PMP (Tekken) returns following:

Code: Select all

MPlayer dev-CVS-050928-16&#58;38-3.4.2 &#40;C&#41; 2000-2005 MPlayer Team
CPU&#58; Intel  &#40;Family&#58; 6, Stepping&#58; 8&#41;
Detected cache-line size is 64 bytes
CPUflags&#58;  MMX&#58; 1 MMX2&#58; 1 3DNow&#58; 0 3DNow2&#58; 0 SSE&#58; 0 SSE2&#58; 0
Compiled with runtime CPU detection - WARNING - this is not optimal!
To get best performance, recompile MPlayer with --disable-runtime-cpudetection.

Playing C&#58;\Documents and Settings\WindowsUserX\Desktop\Tekken6_25fps.from.topic.pmp.

FPS seems to be&#58; 25.000000
==========================================================================
Opening video decoder&#58; &#91;ffmpeg&#93; FFmpeg's libavcodec codec family
Selected video codec&#58; &#91;ffodivx&#93; vfm&#58;ffmpeg &#40;FFmpeg MPEG-4&#41;
==========================================================================
Audio&#58; no sound
Starting playback...
VDec&#58; vo config request - 480 x 272 &#40;preferred csp&#58; Planar YV12&#41;
VDec&#58; using Planar YV12 as output csp &#40;no 0&#41;
Movie-Aspect is 1.76&#58;1 - prescaling to correct movie aspect.
VO&#58; &#91;directx&#93; 480x272 => 480x272 Planar YV12
New_Face failed. Maybe the font path is wrong.
Please supply the text font file &#40;~/.mplayer/subfont.ttf&#41;.
subtitle font&#58; load_sub_face failed.
&#91;mpeg4 @ 00991608&#93;slice end not reached but screenspace end &#40;59 left 672020, sco
re= -869&#41;
&#91;mpeg4 @ 00991608&#93;concealing 510 DC, 510 AC, 510 MV errors
V&#58;   0.0 870/870  1%  0%  0.0% 0 0
----PLAYS THE CLIP HERE----
Exiting... &#40;End of file&#41;

Incompatible PMP (Pulp Fiction) returns following:

Code: Select all

MPlayer dev-CVS-050928-16&#58;38-3.4.2 &#40;C&#41; 2000-2005 MPlayer Team
CPU&#58; Intel  &#40;Family&#58; 6, Stepping&#58; 8&#41;
Detected cache-line size is 64 bytes
CPUflags&#58;  MMX&#58; 1 MMX2&#58; 1 3DNow&#58; 0 3DNow2&#58; 0 SSE&#58; 0 SSE2&#58; 0
Compiled with runtime CPU detection - WARNING - this is not optimal!
To get best performance, recompile MPlayer with --disable-runtime-cpudetection.

Playing C&#58;\Documents and Settings\WindowsUserX\Desktop\PULP_FICTION.XviD.from.topic.pmp.

Exiting... &#40;End of file&#41;

wooolF · Post by **wooolF** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 6:49 am

weird that u can't play Pulp Fiction... I use that mod by malcolm (or whatever his nick was), try with it. Could it be too high bitrate (1200)? Just rechecked, works fine here from 2 diff. memsticks...

jonny · Post by **jonny** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 6:54 am

he is using mplayer to play the pmps
there are no pmps "compatible" with mplayer, it's a question of luck if you get the video playing

hyedipin · Post by **hyedipin** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 7:01 am

wooolF, as jonny said, I am using mPlayer (or Simple PMP Convtr) to test my encodes. What did you use to encode pulp fiction? (i havent tried it on PSP yet, waiting to get home to do that)

jonny, but wouldn't you think it's strange that those I used Simple PMP to convert work on mPlayer, but not the ones out of other tools (videora or others).. Right, maybe no PMP is compatible, but mplayer seems to pick up whatever is necessary to play them, look at the log window above out of command..

hmm...

jonny · Post by **jonny** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 7:08 am

it's more a question of luck
raw video data is placed after the video header (the header contains mainly frame lengths)
probably, in some cases, particular values combinations in the header make mplayer stop searching for video data

wooolF · Post by **wooolF** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 7:17 am

hyedipin wrote:wooolF, as jonny said, I am using mPlayer (or Simple PMP Convtr) to test my encodes. What did you use to encode pulp fiction? (i havent tried it on PSP yet, waiting to get home to do that)

mencoder with withmenc GUI
video resolution 482x272
-sws 9 (lanczos)
XViD 2 pass @ 1200kbps
MP3 Stereo 112kbps 44100Hz with +3 gain and volume normalize

hyedipin · Post by **hyedipin** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 7:19 am

Ok, Thanks. will keep you posted.

wooolF · Post by **wooolF** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 7:21 am

kaveman wrote:Okay here's a quick and dirty encode:

...

As you can see the quality and sharpness is great. The only thing you may notice is some artifacting (blocking) and some slight blurring at times.

No bashing KV, but quality was pretty bad IMHO (just IMHO). If you pause the video at different places, you would see that it's kinda blurry and pixelated... Audio wasn't as good either (compared to I, Robot trailer by fAi). Again, just my opinion...

Have you seen I, Robot trailer by fAi? (I_Robot_Trailer_by_fAi_.pmp). THAT is what I call quality. As good as it can get IMHO.

kaveman · Post by **kaveman** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 7:30 am

wooolF wrote:
kaveman wrote:Okay here's a quick and dirty encode:

...

As you can see the quality and sharpness is great. The only thing you may notice is some artifacting (blocking) and some slight blurring at times.
No bashing KV, but quality was pretty bad IMHO (just IMHO). If you pause the video at different places, you would see that it's kinda blurry and pixelated... Again, just my opinion...

Have you seen I, Robot trailer by fAi? (I_Robot_Trailer_by_fAi_.pmp). THAT is what I call quality. As good as it can get IMHO.

Not at all - hence why it was 'quick and dirty' - the main issue as I indicated in the post is that the encoding was done in 1 pass. 2 pass encoding would alleviate these problems a fair bit and additionally, the original source fps would have been 59.97fps, converted down to 23.976fps - this in itself can cause 'downmix' conversion issues with some frame-ghosting. The PMP was then made from that, so the trailer has gone through 2 lossy processes.

As I mentioned before - a big element of the resultant quality will be the source file. I'll try to find a pure 23.976fps source and do another one. You know it's quite hard to find something decent (and legal!) to encode ;)

wooolF · Post by **wooolF** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 7:36 am

kaveman wrote:You know it's quite hard to find something decent (and legal!) to encode ;)

Try @ hdclips.net ^_^
f_t_p://ftp.hdclips.net/incoming/hdclips-net-Videos/gollum/

And... hxxp://www.archive.org/download/dreamtime-HDTV ... e-HDTV.mpg
1.2gb, from NASA, pretty nice.

Both links are legal afaik

hyedipin · Post by **hyedipin** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 7:45 am

If you think about it,
approx 25 MB, 4 minutes, 6.25 Mb/min will produce roughly 750mb for 2 hr movie..

While, I understand we are trying to reach UMD quality, let us not suffer our precious memory stick space, especially for those of us who have only tiny 1GB sticks. ;)

jonny · Post by **jonny** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 8:15 am

I've uploaded a benchmark to test the speed of memstick/hdd used:

http://rapidshare.de/files/11252151/PMP ... n.rar.html

it basically read video/audio frames and report the speed based on video frames per second

my results:

-1GB sandisk (memstick duo pro): 1555 fps
-original 32MB memstick: 549 fps

i'm interested on speed with different memsticks and really interested on the hdd results.
every report is really appreciated

PS: do not change the testing clip, or the results will not be comparable

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