[SPLIT] Discussion on legality and stuff.

Neil Stevens · Post by **Neil Stevens** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 4:16 am

pixel wrote:-) booting from memory card straight -- we don't need that to boot homebrew

For the new models you do, unless you want to use other methods of booting that aren't allowed to be discussed here.

Post by **pixel** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 5:15 am

I'd rather go with finding another leak in the various components of the ps2 than cracking MagicGate to enable booting...

Post by **TyRaNiD** » Wed Apr 27, 2005 2:02 am

For the new models you do, unless you want to use other methods of booting that aren't allowed to be discussed here.

I cannot see what would be wrong with having a modchip for dev purposes, alot of people in ps2dev have modded machines, even if they don't use it for warez.

There are also still options available to the intrepid homebrewer, ps2linux for one (to boot ps2link that is), an AR which can boot homebrew, hell even USB/HD Advance can be used for a reasonable purpose to boot a ps2link iso so... Except with ps2linux these options are not exactly expensive and do not require playing with any magicgate-ness at all.

Not sure why discussing any of them in a dev context are an issue :)

Neil Stevens · Post by **Neil Stevens** » Wed Apr 27, 2005 4:57 am

Well, I have a modified lid on my slim model, which enables me to use [brand name redacted] to boot Japanese releases and my ps2link CDR.

This method has the distinct honor of being bashed equally by ps2-scene and ps2dev, the former for making illegal copies too hard to use, the latter for making them too easy to use.

rinco · Post by **rinco** » Wed Apr 27, 2005 9:57 am

I am currently using the Linux boot disc method for my slim.

However it takes some time to detect and load the disc. Then the boot
loader has to appear and do it's thing. Sure I can set the timeout to 0,
but the menu still appears while my homebrew is loading. And hell, I can
hide it merely by configuring it to output in the wrong video format. But,
that's not cool.

Tell me more about the Action Replay... can it autorun homebrew off
usb/mc card?

Who wants to waste their time trying to crack an encyption? (besides
distributed.net). I am interested in how Magic Gate relates to the
memory card. Is the entire mc encypted? Are only particular files
encrypted? Do those files contain metadata about the file protection?
Or does the filesystem refer to the file protection?

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Apr 27, 2005 11:55 am

I guess I want to raise the same issue I raised in the PSP related forums - are discussions related to cracking PS2/PSP cryptos healthy for these forums - yes or no ?

Not wanting to see a splash screen is hardly a dev-worthy justification to dig into something that may serve no other purpose.

The key criteria from a DEV point of view, for booting consoles, is to enable a means to DEV - to get to the point where a homebrewer can run code. So long as that minimum criteria is able to be satisfied, it is harder to justify other more extreme methods that can be abused in a way detrimental to the console platform as a whole.

Methods of booting that, as far as I know, do not enable warez:
Linux RTE, Pro Action Replay MAX, Indepedance exploit

Methods of booting that enable warez:
Modchip, HD Loader/Advance, USB Extreme/Advance

Methods relating to data protection but sometimes involved in booting, and can enable abuse if opened:
MG

The way I look at it, there is no valid need to pursue this line of inquiry with respect to MG.

rinco · Post by **rinco** » Wed Apr 27, 2005 1:09 pm

I guess I want to raise the same issue I raised in the PSP related forums - are discussions related to cracking PS2/PSP cryptos healthy for these forums - yes or no ?

No - it is not healthy.

Perhaps the talk on 'cracking' and 'warez' can stay in the PSP forums.

Post by **ooPo** » Wed Apr 27, 2005 2:26 pm

How about talk of these subjects are ok on the psp as it is part of working towards homebrew support on that system, but not on the ps2 as we already have reasonably easy to access methods of booting our code?

Topics that lead head-first into warez are still disallowed, of course.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Apr 27, 2005 6:35 pm

ooPo wrote:How about talk of these subjects are ok on the psp as it is part of working towards homebrew support on that system, but not on the ps2 as we already have reasonably easy to access methods of booting our code?

Topics that lead head-first into warez are still disallowed, of course.

Oopo, I do understand where you are coming from. But the basic problem is, we do not yet know what damage could be caused, or do not seem to be thinking about such, while heading straight into crypto areas.

The goal is a good one, but I wonder if we couldn't focus on other areas first, and ask people to approach crypto as the last resort ?

I would hate to arrive at a "Oops, the platform is now economically unviable for Sony and partners, but at least we can dev on it".

Neil Stevens · Post by **Neil Stevens** » Wed Apr 27, 2005 7:30 pm

"Economically unviable?" That's not going to happen, not in countries where copyright law is enforced, and definitely not in countries that have various bans on copyright circumvention devices.

When I can go to the mall and buy infringing copies of games, and the tools to play them, I'll believe that the business model is in jeopardy.

And exploring a direct boot from a memory card won't bring us ANY closer to that than ps2 independence did.

Post by **ooPo** » Wed Apr 27, 2005 11:32 pm

Gorim: Under the 'work smarter, not harder' theme, crypto is the wrong way anyway. :)

Post by **Neovanglist** » Wed Apr 27, 2005 11:34 pm

Neil Stevens wrote:"Economically unviable?" That's not going to happen, not in countries where copyright law is enforced, and definitely not in countries that have various bans on copyright circumvention devices.

When I can go to the mall and buy infringing copies of games, and the tools to play them, I'll believe that the business model is in jeopardy.

And exploring a direct boot from a memory card won't bring us ANY closer to that than ps2 independence did.

/me points at the dreamcast.

Neil Stevens · Post by **Neil Stevens** » Thu Apr 28, 2005 6:17 am

I'll try to make this my last post in the tangent:

You could point to the Dreamcast only if Sony didn't have a trail of failed consoles behind it before the Dreamcast.

Post by **ooPo** » Thu Apr 28, 2005 6:48 am

Talk about shooting a tangent off a tangent. How is this even relevant?

Besides the Saturn was very successful in Japan, the Megadrive in Europe and the SMS in... Brazil? :)

Regardless, I think its time to chop and move this part of the thread to offtopic.