A plea to webmasters/sites posting PSP Homebrew Dev

Smiths · Post by **Smiths** » Sat May 21, 2005 11:32 am

Hello,
I go by the handle "Smiths", and work on several current PSP projects, including the highly popular and consistently updated "RIN" GB/GBC emulator.
Currently, I and other Japanese developers have a problem with the usage and crediting of the site "PSPHacker". (PSPH)
This site unfortunately is already doing its part in corrupting the PSP development community by refusing to acknowledge the proper sites and programmers involved with each project.
It is also intentional, which is what has several Japanese programmers unhappy.
I currently do several official translations for the Japanese PSPDev community, in order to facilitate programs being properly explained and distributed to sites and forums such as this one. However, PSPH blatantly disregards all credit requested in said README files, and when they are alerted to this fact, they simply remove posts and "re-babelfish" the news.
They are making this current "community" into a "scene", and it's discouraging several programmers already.
The true community lies @ PSPWiki (http://psp.holybell.to), which is a Japanese site but anyone can simply babelfish it if desired.
My current hosts, Emuholic (www.emuholic.com) are the official areas English translations will get posted. Remember, these translations represent the Japanese developers who are creating these program. PSPH does not represent anything.
Anyone can simply reload PSPWiki every 5 minutes, grab any ZIP file posted there, and put it on an English site.
This is highly detrimental and -- in fact -- dangerous for one main reason:
Some malicious person can post a corrupt firmware file, a virus masking as an emulator, etc. on PSPWiki, and a site that practices such tactics as PSPH would potentially release that file to the "community" in their quest to be "0-sec".
Already, Japanese developers have tested this theory in the past by posting random small things -- nothing harmful, just minor minor changes or files that have Japanese disclaimers saying they do not need to be posted -- which PSPH has grabbed and posted immediately. Needless to say, that got quite a laugh from several current Japanese developers.
This site is obviously the main hub of current English PSP-related development. It is my request any website using this forum/site as a source of information also inform your readers of the discredit PSPH is tainting all the current developers with.
There are true sources of information and files, and then there's the credit-taking sites that dishearten the current developers.
Some are considering halting programming and/or releasing files until this is acknowledged.
Users have a right to know a site like PSPWiki can be accessed and translated by anyone who wants to, and they should simply read and respect the people behind the current crop of programs being released (e.g.- No "We want 1.5!" requests spamming, which resulted in a 'non-Japan' ban previously). They should also be aware that if there is any current, official English offering, I will be releasing it via Emuholic (space providers).

Just as a recent example, a version of RIN was released containing debug code to help track down non-working games. This was posted immediately at PSPH with no mention of the functions, and already people are complaining it is a bit slower and there are "annoying numbers" on the right.
The developer did not create this release as an 'updated build', and to see it played off as such goes against his entire purpose of releasing it.
Also, the consistent posts from users there demanding 1.5 Support is annoying the developers as well. They do like seeing English feedback (there's a cultural 'coolness' to seeing others using their software), but to have their work posted on what many are using as a "hub" of English news only to see complaints andinaccurate information is upsetting many.

Cultural misunderstanding can tarnish a whole community.

I appreciate your time,
Smiths
www.emuholic.com
psp.holybell.to

Post by **ooPo** » Sat May 21, 2005 12:06 pm

We try to give credit where it is due, and point people to the original source of information whenever possible. I'm glad you've finally come forward to set the record straight.

I think we all agree that the PSP Hacker tends to be overeager to post news as quick as they can without any thought as to its accuracy. This can be harmful, but soon enough people will tire of its inaccuracies.

In the meantime, please feel free to keep us updated on your progress and we'll make sure to point people towards your site.

Thanks for dropping by!

Smiths · Post by **Smiths** » Sat May 21, 2005 12:17 pm

Much appreciated, thank you.

subbie · Post by **subbie** » Sat May 21, 2005 12:42 pm

I have to agree with you and now that you mention it I have become a bit worried someone will post a malware app and psphacker will take the bate and post it to unsuspecting people. It's bad enough there are limited amounts of 1.0 units out there.

I personaly keep with dcemu because they, to me, do a good job of giving credit where due and help out where they can. They also try to organise things out so people can see whats avalible.
http://psp-news.dcemu.co.uk/

I hope you guys over at wiki keep up the good work. The scene would not be the same with out you guys!

Smiths · Post by **Smiths** » Sat May 21, 2005 12:44 pm

I speak directly to the admin os PSP-News.dcemu and he's in the same boat of providing information for a "community".
In fact, when a user of his site programmed the Neo Pocket emulator, there was immediate concern of PSPH grabbing it before the author could be contacted for 'proper credit' information.

subbie · Post by **subbie** » Sat May 21, 2005 12:56 pm

Smiths wrote:I speak directly to the admin os PSP-News.dcemu and he's in the same boat of providing information for a "community".
In fact, when a user of his site programmed the Neo Pocket emulator, there was immediate concern of PSPH grabbing it before the author could be contacted for 'proper credit' information.

Actualy I have to truely admit (been kind of hiding it). I am the guy who released the ngp emulator over there. I kind of liked the site & did not want to post another emulator on a dev forum (here) since I felt it did not help the scene any.

There was a small update to the info in the post because I felt some might get confused by the credits and think neopop_uk was directly working on the psp port.

I was a little displeased by psph just poorly copy & pasting the readme file unlike dcemu posting the full readme as well as updating the site when I posted the change in the forum topic.

--edit--
One interesting note. I posted a small update a few hours ago and only 11 people nabed it so far. :)

Smiths · Post by **Smiths** » Sat May 21, 2005 1:04 pm

Well then let me say thanks for your excellent work! I understand your concern with anonymizing yourself, sorry for dragging it out! :)

It accentuates the displeasure the actual people making these programs for the end-user are having unfortunately.

Post by **Herben** » Sat May 21, 2005 1:14 pm

You may wish to visit our "PSP Software Discussion" and start a thread for each of your projects. We're using that forum so people can see what software is available and for the authors to make statements about their releases. This would be a perfect place for you to post updates and would insure that the english world sees the readme and other information you intend them to see.

Hopefully you won't allow psphacker to make you bitter toward the non-jp community since many of us are good people and respect the work of others. :)

subbie · Post by **subbie** » Sat May 21, 2005 1:23 pm

Smiths wrote:Well then let me say thanks for your excellent work! I understand your concern with anonymizing yourself, sorry for dragging it out! :)

It accentuates the displeasure the actual people making these programs for the end-user are having unfortunately.

dont worrie you did not drag it out of me. I just felt unsure about tagging my real handle to it so i went with an old alternative of mine (but one a few friends would have realised it was me). I felt like finaly giving that up.

sorry for taking this a bit off topic.

Clay · Post by **Clay** » Sat May 21, 2005 2:55 pm

see below. Double post

Clay · Post by **Clay** » Sat May 21, 2005 3:04 pm

I won't comment on the above Smiths posts because we are starting over with a fresh start. I think we both feel this is best for the community.

Subbie please help me figure out how you want things posted. I want to see how you want us to post from a developers standpoint since you said you were unhappy with the way we posted it (or maybe I am just reading it wrong).

Wraggster from DCEmu sent me the news which was posted up here:
http://www.psphacker.com/2005/05/ngpsp- ... p-v10.html
If you check the source thread it goes to the thread he sent me in the email.

If we are doing something wrong my apologies as in the end we want what you want and that is a thriving community. Awesome job by the way! As for the downloads 60 people have downloaded your latest version off our site and 442 from the original. Great job!

fredrik · Post by **fredrik** » Sat May 21, 2005 5:18 pm

I must say that psphacker has gone from "nice" to "shit" in very little time. I find their tactics very bad (not linking people to the source of the program and not showing the author), as it makes it seem that they wish to trick people into believing that the program originated from their website and from their programmers.

I've seen this before, and that was when www.snesadvance.com started posting the upgrades from the GBA emulator snesadvance, without mentioning the fact that it didn't originate from their own site.

It's just bad style, and psphacker.com's plan to try and keep people on their site only for psp news is very obvious (don't mind all the countless ads now, while most sites just have one google ad in a right/left table they have 10 ads in each post). Saying that you need that many ads to make money is just plain bs.

I won't even comment on their way to "trick" people into visiting their liksang link earlier on (saying that you could only get 1.0 from the japanese websites and then linking to liksang with their referrer, when they obviously doesn't have any 1.0).

I for one sure is going to do everything in my power to make sure psphacker can't have any apps/emus I create on their website (adding an intro saying where you can get the latest versions etc, and where not to get it).

Edit: By reading smith's post it appears that the reason they blocked everything but .jp to the psp-wiki was psphackers fault, as they ripped everything without linking back or giving out the author. It's a shame so many people has to suffer just because of one site.

Famicom DS · Post by **Famicom DS** » Sat May 21, 2005 5:39 pm

Smiths thx for making us aware of this situation I will have emuholic as my first resource for homebrew and other apps for the psp

Keith|EF · Post by **Keith|EF** » Sat May 21, 2005 7:13 pm

Yeah Smiths I agree with you about PSP Hacker. At first when emulators were being released we used them but they never really provided anything we couldn't already get from PSPWiki. Currently we are no longer posting unofficial builds because we also worry about malicious code or confusing people with the official builds. I am also good friends with wraggster (DCemu) and he provides a great resource for PSP information along with PSPWiki of course and they are my only source for news at this time. Whenever we use your english readmes for information or changes we always link to emuholic and you are a great resource for us that don't want to rely on a rubbish babelfish translation. Keep up the great work. :)

I was also told to just provide a thank you text for PSPWiki rather then linking directly to them to prevent lamers from requested stuff like you said .. support for 1.5 firmware. If you think we should link just let me know and I will correct our news posts.

Smiths · Post by **Smiths** » Sat May 21, 2005 7:21 pm

I appeciate it all. Please understand Emuholic may not have my work immediately; there are time zone problems (GMT, JST, etc.).
However, because they do provide space for my current projects and in the past for my GBA things, and because GuyFawkes is a general nice bloke, I just see them as deserving as credit for me actually giving 2 shits to translate things :)

Usually I post my English translations direct to PSPWiki, because honestly the Japanese developers don't load many English sites so they kinda enjoy seeing the English stuff going up there from me.

I kinda like using the ps2dev "software" forum now actually. I have gotten help with sample code from here, along with the devkit, so I might as well utilize it.

Thank you again for your support.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sat May 21, 2005 7:25 pm

Smiths, glad you are finding the ps2dev forums and folks to your liking! Seems like you might have much to add the community here!

We always like to warn serious newcomers that occasionally folx here can be cranky, but they are still generally nice folx.

Feel free to stop by #ps2dev on IRC (Freenode network) and chat up!

subbie · Post by **subbie** » Sun May 22, 2005 12:56 am

Clay wrote:I won't comment on the above Smiths posts because we are starting over with a fresh start. I think we both feel this is best for the community.

Subbie please help me figure out how you want things posted. I want to see how you want us to post from a developers standpoint since you said you were unhappy with the way we posted it (or maybe I am just reading it wrong).

Wraggster from DCEmu sent me the news which was posted up here:
http://www.psphacker.com/2005/05/ngpsp- ... p-v10.html
If you check the source thread it goes to the thread he sent me in the email.

If we are doing something wrong my apologies as in the end we want what you want and that is a thriving community. Awesome job by the way! As for the downloads 60 people have downloaded your latest version off our site and 442 from the original. Great job!

Sorry. I feel I am being a little too critical. It's just the first time though it felt very copy paste and you did not link to the actual topic where the build was (just a pre-topic that had pictures).

Also it would not hurt to clean up the text a bit. ;) "To Come- Real GUI- Rom Selecting- Sound- Src (next build)" should have been "To Come: Real GUI, Rom Selecting, Sound & Src (next build)"

Your post on the 1.1 build was great though. That I have to thank you for. Also a minor note, all build will be in that main topic (linked in the 1.1) but i will submit a news update when i release new things.

Clay · Post by **Clay** » Sun May 22, 2005 7:34 am

It appears no one read my previous reply, or my apology and changing my update style with full sources is having no effect.

We do hope it's the former, as we do want to maintain good relationships with all sites in the community. We will continue to give full credit on all news updates, and kindly ask for anyone to politely add a comment on any news update that is incorrectly sourced (sometimes it's hard with the langage barriers to credit properly), as we are NOT looking to take credit for anyone else's hard work.

I sincerely hope all this can be buried and forgotten =)

Clay
administrator
psphacker.com

subbie · Post by **subbie** » Sun May 22, 2005 8:39 am

Clay wrote:It appears no one read my previous reply, or my apology and changing my update style with full sources is having no effect.

We do hope it's the former, as we do want to maintain good relationships with all sites in the community. We will continue to give full credit on all news updates, and kindly ask for anyone to politely add a comment on any news update that is incorrectly sourced (sometimes it's hard with the langage barriers to credit properly), as we are NOT looking to take credit for anyone else's hard work.

I sincerely hope all this can be buried and forgotten =)

Clay
administrator
psphacker.com

I would say ignore some of the comments in this topic. More people are willing to jump on the hate waggon insted of reading the full topic and thinking for them self.

I do ask in the future (if you guys have one) to try verifying stuff before you post (even if just using the emu). There is always the danger of someone just posting up a quick program that will destroy the bios.

Dan · Post by **Dan** » Sun May 22, 2005 4:42 pm

I am sick of PSPHacker.com. I am Dan from PSPSaves.net and they are always stealing our saves and claiming them as there own. I have tried contacting them several times and they continue to ignore me.

Post by **ooPo** » Sun May 22, 2005 5:53 pm

This forum is not the place for everyone to air their dirty laundry.

As stated earlier, psphacker taken steps to address the issues people have had with their actions. The original complaint in this thread has been resolved in a mature, friendly manner.

I see no reason to continue this thread if it is just going to collect a bunch of 'me too!' posts.

Locked.