PMP(PSP Media Player)

dnnsmanace · Post by **dnnsmanace** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 7:30 am

Why reinvent the wheel? This will make everything more of a hassle. XviD has come a long way, so has the movie scene. Just integrate existing subtitle file support like the one avis use now. Dont see what it would optimize since its still xvid+mp3.

zacay · Post by **zacay** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 7:51 am

dnnsmanace wrote:Why reinvent the wheel? This will make everything more of a hassle. XviD has come a long way, so has the movie scene. Just integrate existing subtitle file support like the one avis use now. Dont see what it would optimize since its still xvid+mp3.

I fully agree, Its a hassle already, I look for a PMP that makes my life easier..

jonny · Post by **jonny** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 8:04 am

digihoe · Post by **digihoe** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 8:22 am

jonny don't take notice of them... You know what is needed, not them...

Your doing a great job!

Best regards!

dnnsmanace · Post by **dnnsmanace** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 12:04 pm

jonny wrote:...

Im not being negative or hating. Please explain the need for this?

cheriff · Post by **cheriff** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 12:26 pm

I think the point is, jonny and JiniCho (and sorry if i missed anyone else, they seem to be the main authors) are clearly intelligent guys. I'm sure they've optimised everything they can here and there, and if they see the need for a different container format, i'll bet there is a bloody good reason.
They are no doubt aware that an extra conversion step is (a damn slight) inconvinience and the decision to require it would've not been taken lightly nor as anything other than a last resort.
I imagine it would be quite demoralizing to, after putting so much work into something have someone second guess and pick apart whatever design decions you made.

Asking WHY the pmp format is required would be a good question, I myself am interested in how it improves performance. More psp-cache friendly? slightly pre-processed? Distilled to a common format so that the demuxer only need to know one case and hence much easier optimized? I dunno.
But it seems that what sounds like whinging and complaining about making "everything more of a hassle" is just ungrateful.

</my2cents>

(not a personal attack on anyone, but I am well aware that with text based communication a lot of context /meaning can be lost. This is how I interpreted events and assume that others have too)

Itaintrite · Post by **Itaintrite** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 2:41 pm

I'm sure that I'll have to re-encode the files anyhow to save space, so it won't be much of a hassle to use a new container format.

jonny · Post by **jonny** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 7:55 pm

dnnsmanace, you quote my message, but you decide to ignore what i write:

final notes for all: watch it, be happy, don't ask for more info (it's early), the patience be with you :-)

i've written this mainly to avoid such kind of situations... at least at this stage of development.
it's so easy to bump in the thread asking, but remember that i'm also programming this stuff (and this doesn't take the 2 minutes you are spending to write a comment) and i'd like to decide myself when it's time to chat in the thread.
the question is respect me and what i'm asking

zacay

I fully agree, Its a hassle already, I look for a PMP that makes my life easier..

why should i complicate my life to get your life easier?
(dnnsmanace, "..." was mainly for the zacay comment, but you have a part on this too)

now, the new container is for:
1 - speed of development
2 - marginal speed increase (more optimizations will easly be implemented the future, like audio in the me - and this thanks to the way i read packets now)
3 - stability, easy seeking and easy av/sync <--- this can be a real nightmare and it's the main reason (i've personally found this being difficult with the current libavformat, don't understimate this, it's more complex, compared to general optimizations code)

about avi, go yourself in the actual ffmpegs libavformat, try some packet reading routines, try to get correct timestamp information from this, try to write code in a way that audio and video doesn't desync and try to get seeking working correctly.
after getting all working with a good speed and stability, you can ask me "Why reinvent the wheel?".

i can't satisfy everyone needs, really. i ask only to keep ungrateful comments for yourself, zacay.
at the end, what i'm doing in the mod version is what I personally need. there are obviously intersections with other people needs, but i can't intersect everyone.

final notes for all: watch it, be happy, don't ask for more info (it's early), the patience be with you :-)

this is still valid, let's see who will be the next to bump on this :)

PS:
think at what $0ny give you in the video side (a capped player supporting custom mp4 files), at least i'm going to release muxers and specs (and maybe a full encoding app).

PPS:
argandona, your graphic looks really nice :), from my side it's early to go in such direction, but i can't talk for JiniCho ;)

PPPS:
to everyone only saying thanks, thank you too (those comments are the one helping more and are really appreciated :)

Magus · Post by **Magus** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 12:22 am

Keep up the great work jonny. I tested the first few releases and was/is quite eager on the media player. Of course it didn't run perfectly but it was a beta or alpha even. In dev there will always be people who don't respect the time the coders put into their projects. but i'm sure everyone will agree that your making great progress and certainly devoted to the project. Kudos. ;]

PS @argandona: I love those design skins. Looks similar to the XBMC style. I love it.

argandona · Post by **argandona** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 3:52 am

jonny wrote:PPS:
argandona, your graphic looks really nice :), from my side it's early to go in such direction, but i can talk for JiniCho ;)

It's all about making your life easier. Whenever you're ready I'll be here.

zacay · Post by **zacay** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 5:40 am

I didn't want to sound negative, sorry for that I fully support you work guys.

But living with the psp, watching alot of movies like I do, its a hassle to convert everything to psp format just to watch it..

What I hoped for PMP to be as a mediaplayer that can run common formats so the reenconding wouldn't be neccessary...

I don't care about space, cause putting a movie on the memstick is only temporary... download, watch and remove...

I am sure alot of more people would want that, also I am sure alot of people want a emdia player that can play in native resolution..

And I am sure its possible to build somthing to both these types of people..

I just hope that PMP will be able to play xvid and subtitles like any movie player on a computer.. I am waiting..

And sorry, didn't mean to be negative at all..
I am also looking forward to a new container, cause my situation right now is that I still need to conver movies.. and I rather convert to to play n PMP than low resolution mp4.

I am here for donating money as soon as I see something that helps me.. nothing else.. don't demand anything...

So keep up the good work, latest release was nice!

jonny · Post by **jonny** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 7:32 am

zacay, i know sometime i sound hard, but i'm trying to cut discussions that are going nowhere, nothing more.

What I hoped for PMP to be as a mediaplayer that can run common formats so the reenconding wouldn't be neccessary...

this could be somewhat possible in a near future, if you consider watching the video at half of it's original resolution (there is a special decoding parameter in libavcodec that do this - i've tested it obtaining not bad results - but it's too early to talk about this - Jini, if you have time you could check "lowres", it's an interesting parameter).

DigitalFoundry · Post by **DigitalFoundry** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 7:59 am

While I can see the attraction of 'drag and drop' MPEG4 viewing, right now I think the preferable focus is simply on full-speed, full resolution playback. If a PC app is required to re-encode the content, I don't see that as being a massive hindrance. After all we already have to do just that with all PSP video... and then we have to put up with terrible quality playback to boot!

Perhaps once we have a media player that reliably solves the quality angle, 'drag and drop' could be considered for the next phase of development.

Really looking forward to seeing this project mature into something fantastic - best of luck and many thanks to the developers :)

Itaintrite · Post by **Itaintrite** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 9:03 am

Yup, I can only imagine having to auto-downsize videos to fit into PSP res would only put more strain on the hardware (?).

Anyhow, jonny, I eagerly await your next demo/release. Thanks.

Dr. Vegetable · Post by **Dr. Vegetable** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 9:15 am

Itaintrite wrote:Yup, I can only imagine having to auto-downsize videos to fit into PSP res would only put more strain on the hardware (?).

Not to mention that it would be wasteful of precious memory stick space. It really would be better to downsize videos on the host PC before downloading them. (Maybe some of you who are hassling jonny could start working on that, instead?)

Keep up the great work, jonny and JiniCho! Release if and when you are ready, and don't let the turkeys get you down!

jonny · Post by **jonny** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 9:33 am

yep, the lowres stuff i'm talking about is really not quality-optimal, a 640x320 clip would be played at 320x160 (it can be a fun thing to implement since no reencoding is needed, but is for sure a quality/space waste).
Not to consider that clips with qpel or gmc could be still speed-problematic (bframes should not be a big problem with the current code, but i've not deeply benchmarked this)

miemt11 · Post by **miemt11** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 11:09 am

jonny wrote:thanks for the intervention dot_blank, you have got many important points.
(OT: can you explain me "fansentric"? i'm not english, i think i understand the "fan" part but not the "sentric" one :)

yesterday i've got some nice results with the new idea/things i'm working on.
here is a demo of my actual work:
http://rapidshare.de/files/8860242/PMPDEMO.rar.html
(hellboy trailer is contained in the demo)

video is xvid (encoded in an "mpeg4 sp" way :), 480x272, 23.976fps, ~800kbps (it's encoded at quant=4, so the br is not costant)
audio is mp3 stereo, cbr 128kbps, 44100hz
the container is a custom container i'm developing (i'll release muxer/demuxer when everithing will be ready)
on my tests i'm pushing clips with 1800-2000kpbs with not speed problems.

it could crash at the end (or if you press x to exit), mainly cos cleanup code is missing.

there is no source code, mainly cos 30% of the actual code is a mess (i'll release the sources with the first official player release).
do not ask for the sources now please, i'll go to remove the demo and disappear until i'm ready with a stable release if this happen :P

final notes for all: watch it, be happy, don't ask for more info (it's early), the patience be with you :-)

Can someone upload the pspdemo.rar at yousendit.com, because I cannot download from http://rapidshare.de

jonny · Post by **jonny** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 7:00 pm

http://s48.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=05IU ... TNICZAAZDZ

miemt11 · Post by **miemt11** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 7:04 pm

jonny wrote:http://s48.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=05IU ... TNICZAAZDZ

Thanks You

jmb1970 · Post by **jmb1970** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 8:20 pm

Jonny,

thumbs up, awesome effort, just keep up the good work and ignore whiners.

Thanks millions

miemt11 · Post by **miemt11** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 9:10 pm

The Hellboy quality is so good, look like a UMD or PMF movie

Ced2911 · Post by **Ced2911** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 9:56 pm

an another mirror
http://dl-3.free.fr/52616e646f6d495689b ... MPDEMO.rar

great job :p

TestType · Post by **TestType** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 2:38 am

You're doing an awesome job jonny, thanks for all your hard work!

Like others have said I really don't care if I need to convert videos first. Even if it played avi's flawlessly I would probably still have to resize them first to PSP resolution anyway and I don't really mind converting stuff to the mp4 PSP format as it is, so a .pmp format is a good solution for me. I never expected this program to give me the ability to just drag-and-drop unconverted video anyway.

All I care about is performance and full res, good quality. The Hellboy clip is amazing at both and literally made my heart leap with joy that this good looking and smooth video would be possible very soon it seems. Really hope you will be releasing something soon but by all means take any and all the time you need :)
Again, I'm very grateful to you and JiniCho for your work on this project.

GiBBz · Post by **GiBBz** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 5:06 pm

This made the news of PSPUpdates today only 5days late.

and apparently it doesnt run on the Eboot loader can anyone confirm this, i really hope my 1.5 doesnt break :( considering i want this as much as i did a downgrader :)

much thanx to JiniCho and jonny

jonny · Post by **jonny** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 7:53 pm

i think the main problem is the ME (that implies the use of kernel mode too).
from what i understand kernel mode (and so ME and VFPU) are not usable on 2.0
(i can be wrong - someone correct me please if it's not true :)

Yablan · Post by **Yablan** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 10:39 pm

Hi (my first post, just registered).
First of all, kudos to Jonny and JiniCho for all time and work they have invested in this. Regarding the new container discussion, I don' mind converting video files, as I would have to resize most videos to PSP resolution anyway. So that is fine by me.

But in that case, it would be great if the new container is compatible/has codecs for at least one standard video editing app such as Avisynth, Virtualdub or Tmpgenc, in order to be able to crop/resize and clean up/filter/add subtitles to the videos to be formatted. Please excuse me if that was an obvious request. Thank you for your time.

jonny · Post by **jonny** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 10:55 pm

don't worry about this.
the muxer will take one avi file (with mpeg4 video) and one mp3 cbr audio file (at the moment cbr, maybe vbr in successive releases)
there are no particulat limitations in the way you'll produce this
for example i'm using avisynth+virtualdubmod+xvid (or sometimes ffmpeg) for video, besweet (or sometimes ffmpeg again) for audio
More details/tips about video/audio encoding will go with the first player release

Quartus · Post by **Quartus** » Thu Dec 15, 2005 12:18 am

jonny wrote:More details/tips about video/audio encoding will go with the first player release

Can't wait. :D

Thanks for a great piece of work.

jmb1970 · Post by **jmb1970** » Thu Dec 15, 2005 1:34 am

Just a small comment on the muxer to come

I think linux users like me will hope it will run under wine emulation or the source is released so it can be compiled under linux.

But otherwise we will just need to find an m$ box to run the muxing, it's okay

jonny · Post by **jonny** » Thu Dec 15, 2005 1:45 am

90% of the muxer is ready and is written in perl (the only problem i see could be big-endian/little-endian issues, nothing difficult to fix anyway)