PMP Mod v2.02 & PMP Mod AVC v1.02

wooolF · Post by **wooolF** » Fri Jan 27, 2006 3:36 am

Eingang wrote:okay... this is from Riddick.... first file 1500kbit 7-pass, second file 1100kbit 11-pass, both divx, forming, optimized - first file is the type of quality I expect from ALL my movies, second is just to show the difference... 1000kbit are not acceptable anymore for me

http://www.intarapm.de/7.pmp
http://www.intarapm.de/11.pmp

I muxed them with 1.00 and used to play with Malcom3..

Just watched, looks fine, pretty sharp and looks good... BUT... I can't compare it to any other videos as yours aren't full screen... encode it in full screen at same quality, then we'll compare ;)

hyedipin · Post by **hyedipin** » Fri Jan 27, 2006 3:38 am

yousendit will delete the file after 7 days, or if it has been downloaded 25 times.

wooolF · Post by **wooolF** » Fri Jan 27, 2006 3:41 am

hyedipin wrote:yousendit will delete the file after 7 days, or if it has been downloaded 25 times.

the file was blocked...

psp360 · Post by **psp360** » Fri Jan 27, 2006 4:02 am

wooolF any help on that audio error when trying to play Eingang's files? and have you gotten chance to start your guide?
xxxstarmanxxx what sharpness value did you use? was it the recommended 20 or did you go higher? thanks!

wooolF · Post by **wooolF** » Fri Jan 27, 2006 4:10 am

wooolF wrote:
@Raphael
Yeh, seems it got blocked on YouSendIt. I will reupload to another place tomorrow (not currently at home). And you should really lok intoDiVX (I know, I hate it myself, but that's the only option for now if u want a good looking video @ PSP with no audio stuttering problems IMHO).

Here we go =)

http://files.filefront.com/take16pmp/;4 ... einfo.html

Raphael · Post by **Raphael** » Fri Jan 27, 2006 4:10 am

@wooolF:
Well up to now I haven't had any issues with stuttering so far, most likely because I only watched anime episodes with a bitrate of 512kbit and due to the drawing style, there aren't that complex scenes like the orgasm scene in matrix. It's definetely got more to do with the complexity of the scene (ie how much details there are) than with the actual kbit encoding. DivX tend's to smooth out such heavy detailed scenes to make it faster and achieve better compression, while XVid tries to keep the sharpness and details as far as possible but this uses a lot of processing power.
However, I still want to make the player better in any way possible, that's why I want to look into this XVid issue ;)

wooolF · Post by **wooolF** » Fri Jan 27, 2006 4:12 am

psp360 wrote:wooolF any help on that audio error when trying to play Eingang's files? and have you gotten chance to start your guide?

1) I've used malloc's M4 (modded by Raphael), no problems there...
2) Not yet as I'm not at home... :x

wooolF · Post by **wooolF** » Fri Jan 27, 2006 4:13 am

Raphael wrote:@wooolF:
Well up to now I haven't had any issues with stuttering so far, most likely because I only watched anime episodes with a bitrate of 512kbit and due to the drawing style, there aren't that complex scenes like the orgasm scene in matrix. It's definetely got more to do with the complexity of the scene (ie how much details there are) than with the actual kbit encoding. DivX tend's to smooth out such heavy detailed scenes to make it faster and achieve better compression, while XVid tries to keep the sharpness and details as far as possible but this uses a lot of processing power.
However, I still want to make the player better in any way possible, that's why I want to look into this XVid issue ;)

Yes, more action/details = more bandwitch is needed = bigger bitrate... That's why I've chosen those scenes from Matrix 2... That way I was sure if THOSE doesnt have any issues, then nothing else will ;)

And DiVX can be pretty sharp =) I've reuploaded my DiVX reencode to another host, check the link in my sig =)

Eingang · Post by **Eingang** » Fri Jan 27, 2006 5:11 am

wooolF wrote:
Eingang wrote:okay... this is from Riddick.... first file 1500kbit 7-pass, second file 1100kbit 11-pass, both divx, forming, optimized - first file is the type of quality I expect from ALL my movies, second is just to show the difference... 1000kbit are not acceptable anymore for me

http://www.intarapm.de/7.pmp
http://www.intarapm.de/11.pmp

I muxed them with 1.00 and used to play with Malcom3..
Just watched, looks fine, pretty sharp and looks good... BUT... I can't compare it to any other videos as yours aren't full screen... encode it in full screen at same quality, then we'll compare ;)

What do you mean ? I can add black borders but this makes absolutely no difference in quality. Otherwise I could cut to full screen, but I must admit, I couldn´t encode any full res videos (1:1,78) in an acceptable quality without stuttering. In demanding scenes pmp performance is too low for this.

I watched the file you sent me, I guess this was an early try and I don´t have to say anything about quality. So i should watch your actual samples....

I tried a lot with a extremely high demanding 1:1,78 scene in divx, no success. Stuttering leaves around 850kbit and this quality is garbage niveau for me - I don´t want to get eye cancer.... :)

@psp360

Tested them, downloaded with 3Mbit full speed, they do work with any player version. I guess you have a little bandwidth issue..... sorry for you.

wooolF · Post by **wooolF** » Fri Jan 27, 2006 5:50 am

Eingang wrote:What do you mean ? I can add black borders but this makes absolutely no difference in quality. Otherwise I could cut to full screen, but I must admit, I couldn´t encode any full res videos (1:1,78) in an acceptable quality without stuttering. In demanding scenes pmp performance is too low for this.

I watched the file you sent me, I guess this was an early try and I don´t have to say anything about quality. So i should watch your actual samples....

1) I ment full screen mode as if you would see a normal UMD movie where the picture fills whole screen and you don't see any borders (as on your encodings).

2) Yes, the one I've sent pm about was XViD encoding which I dropped for now as PSP can't play PMP without audio stuttering problems (damnit!). But it seems that DiVX can... not 100% as sharp, but it's near XViD quality... See my signature for the example =)

Eingang · Post by **Eingang** » Fri Jan 27, 2006 6:26 am

wooolF wrote:
Eingang wrote:What do you mean ? I can add black borders but this makes absolutely no difference in quality. Otherwise I could cut to full screen, but I must admit, I couldn´t encode any full res videos (1:1,78) in an acceptable quality without stuttering. In demanding scenes pmp performance is too low for this.

I watched the file you sent me, I guess this was an early try and I don´t have to say anything about quality. So i should watch your actual samples....
1) I ment full screen mode as if you would see a normal UMD movie where the picture fills whole screen and you don't see any borders (as on your encodings).

2) Yes, the one I've sent pm about was XViD encoding which I dropped for now as PSP can't play PMP without audio stuttering problems (damnit!). But it seems that DiVX can... not 100% as sharp, but it's near XViD quality... See my signature for the example =)

- Riddick UMD is widescreen 1:2,4 with black borders top and bottom and I can´t strecht it with my 1.5 PSP. Also there are many other UMDs like that. I personally do not want to cut content to fill out PSP screen, cause I always feel there´s something missing. Anyway, of course full screen picture movies are more demanding and whoever can encode nice quality without stuttering in this way can feel proud to have done the impossible.

I´d say PMP is simply not good enough yet to play full screen picture UMD quality. Wide screen it is (at least video) and this is a lot, I enjoy it very very much....

- Yes, I mean, even if your sample wouldn´t stutter the quality is inacceptable in my eyes.

Eingang · Post by **Eingang** » Fri Jan 27, 2006 6:28 am

sry double post

wooolF · Post by **wooolF** » Fri Jan 27, 2006 6:46 am

Eingang wrote:- Yes, I mean, even if your sample wouldn´t stutter the quality is inacceptable in my eyes.

Is my DiVX sample *that* bad in your eyes? I mean... I was working with graphics on the professional base for past 8 years and making living on it... And to be honest, I couldn't see any differences between your 11pass encoding and mine 2pass DiVX... or did I missed something?

psp360 · Post by **psp360** » Fri Jan 27, 2006 6:55 am

Eingang hey thanks for pointing that out :) double checked the file and YES it was smaller than what was online. DL now!

psp360 · Post by **psp360** » Fri Jan 27, 2006 7:00 am

wooolF Hey thanks man...I was clueless as to the great work going on with the mods for PMP...I was thinking all the action was in this post but I now have to keep checking the other post for customizations on PMP interface. I just finished DLing PMPMOD_1_01_M4g2_argandona...this is turning out to be a really nice board....WOW... I LOVE MY PSP:)

wooolF · Post by **wooolF** » Fri Jan 27, 2006 7:05 am

psp360 wrote:wooolF Hey thanks man...I was clueless as to the great work going on with the mods for PMP...I was thinking all the action was in this post but I now have to keep checking the other post for customizations on PMP interface. I just finished DLing PMPMOD_1_01_M4g2_argandona...this is turning out to be a really nice board....WOW... I LOVE MY PSP:)

my pleasure =) and yeh, nice GUI for PMP Mod is an eyecandy =)

psp360 · Post by **psp360** » Fri Jan 27, 2006 7:49 am

Eingang OK I got your 7.pmp and 11.pmp files and just watched them. As expected no problems with audio and video is really sweet. I definitely need to start putting this whole PMP thing into perceptive otherwise I will find myself just spending the rest of my days tweaking and always wanting more sharpness and more colour and more more more….ARRRRR! Not to very long ago AVC was like the best of the best in terms of video that we could have ripped from a dvd and transfer to our psp. Since this great pmp player and encoder have come to us, I simply refuse to watch another ‘AVC crap video’ again. But you will all agree with me when I say that the worst PMP video will still look 100 times better than a very good AVC file (of course I am exaggerating here…but you get my point) I guess what I am trying to share with you guys is we have a very good app that gives very good results any which way you look at it, so lets take a step back and start putting down some steps to build on for the rest of the people who are missing out on this simple because it appears too complicated.

Eingang · Post by **Eingang** » Fri Jan 27, 2006 7:52 am

wooolF wrote:
Eingang wrote:- Yes, I mean, even if your sample wouldn´t stutter the quality is inacceptable in my eyes.
Is my DiVX sample *that* bad in your eyes? I mean... I was working with graphics on the professional base for past 8 years and making living on it... And to be honest, I couldn't see any differences between your 11pass encoding and mine 2pass DiVX... or did I missed something?

I talked about the file you sent me per PM....
Just now I watched your Matrix movie. You want to hear my true opinion ?

This movie is better quality, and it doesn´t stutter at all. Indeed I didn´t manage to create such a good quality for full screen picture yet so I respect your work.

But - of course it is still very blocky .... you can see it and if not, just pause and then you see. This scene has lots of objects and fast moving, but most objects are black indeed. The result is a worse quality and less data. It means, the scene you choose is not really a demanding one. Better would be a bright scene with many different, colored objects (while fast movement of picture and objects).

And sure, my passes are both better looking than quality of your Matrix sample. .... But okay, don´t feel offended, I really respect you as I know how much work this is (I spent several days/night with it since PMPmod is here)

xxxstarmanxxx · Post by **xxxstarmanxxx** » Fri Jan 27, 2006 7:53 am

360.....

The filter is not applied in virtualdub - its applied using an avs script so that the video is sent to virtualdub pre-processed.

This way - You get the best quality as filter and any other you apply are done before they reach virtualdub and are in YUV colour space.

I'll be uploading quantisized Xvid encodings of the Blade Trinity Trailer for the board this evening as follows:

1500kbs average bitrate
1200kbs average bitrate
1000kbs average bitrate

What seems to be the general score - is that the Xvid codec has to be plain old vanilla for the psp CPU to handle it.

No qpel - No GMC - No Adaptive - And Definately no B-Vops!!!

The tools used for the encodes i'll upload tonight are as follows:

Avisynth 2.56 (for passing the script)

NIC's_DVD2AVI (For auto cropping/Aspect ratio/resizing using Lan4 filter - which is then passed to an avs script - and to open Vob files as avisynth is sometimes buggy with them)

VirtualdubMOD (To encode 2 passes)

Muxer 1.02 (obvious)

The quality is achieved by the filters I apply in the avs script.

The max syntax of sharpen in avisynth is 1.0 - And thats what I use.

I'll post a guide to the Xvid codec settings after everyone has had the chance to judge my latest encodes and thinks its worth it.

All the best

J.

Eingang · Post by **Eingang** » Fri Jan 27, 2006 7:59 am

@psp360

Whatever we do in this thing, it takes a lot of time.... no matter if coding, creating skins, encoding ...... and so on. But it´s no work, it´s fun - it makes me happy to be some part of all that, to see, read and think about what you all do, say, create, to see things changing, improving, to test and try to give something too.... this is the reason I have this PSP, because it is so much more than playing childish games we´ve seen somewhen yet.... ahm, sry for offtopic

wooolF · Post by **wooolF** » Fri Jan 27, 2006 8:02 am

Eingang wrote:And sure, my passes are both better looking than quality of your Matrix sample. .... But okay, don´t feel offended, I really respect you as I know how much work this is (I spent several days/night with it since PMPmod is here)

I still don't see how you can judge my encodings compared to yours when those 2 run in 2 different resolutions... Mine got 15-20% more picture (screenwise), that means more bitrate is needed for each frame... which means I have to find the "golden middle" between good quality, no audio stuttering and best performance...

I'm not offended at all... It's just like comparing Mini to Hammer...

wooolF · Post by **wooolF** » Fri Jan 27, 2006 8:05 am

Eingang wrote:@psp360

Whatever we do in this thing, it takes a lot of time.... no matter if coding, creating skins, encoding ...... and so on. But it´s no work, it´s fun - it makes me happy to be some part of all that, to see, read and think about what you all do, say, create, to see things changing, improving, to test and try to give something too.... this is the reason I have this PSP, because it is so much more than playing childish games we´ve seen somewhen yet.... ahm, sry for offtopic

couldn't be agreed any more on this. good said =)

wooolF · Post by **wooolF** » Fri Jan 27, 2006 8:06 am

xxxstarmanxxx wrote:I'll post a guide to the Xvid codec settings after everyone has had the chance to judge my latest encodes and thinks its worth it.

Already posted mine ;D

psp360 · Post by **psp360** » Fri Jan 27, 2006 8:18 am

@Eingang I agree this is fun...I just don't want us to loss the focus and start compete for the best this or best that :) I know how much work it takes and you would have to LOVE this to invest so much time...that or total nuts :) anyway, let’s all just get along.

@xxxstarmanxxx NOW That’s what I’m talking about man…Bring it on. It has been a little difficult to decide which tool/method/setting and files I should use only because there is so many different approaches...and IMHO EVERYONE has been doing great work...so if you uploads are great (to me) please upload tools and steps...I just want to set some rules for myself so that i can get a better understanding of everything and maybe help someone out:) 'So bring it on babyyy'

Thanks

wooolF · Post by **wooolF** » Fri Jan 27, 2006 8:23 am

I would... If I was home... and tomorrow I'll be at work, then gym, then off to my gf for the whole weekend... so I'll be back "online" at Monday evening.. bleh...

Raphael · Post by **Raphael** » Fri Jan 27, 2006 8:59 am

You like tripple-posting, don't you wooolF? You should try getting along with editing unless you're just keen on getting a lot of posts quickly :P

Eingang · Post by **Eingang** » Fri Jan 27, 2006 9:00 am

wooolF wrote:
Eingang wrote:And sure, my passes are both better looking than quality of your Matrix sample. .... But okay, don´t feel offended, I really respect you as I know how much work this is (I spent several days/night with it since PMPmod is here)
I still don't see how you can judge my encodings compared to yours when those 2 run in 2 different resolutions... Mine got 15-20% more picture (screenwise), that means more bitrate is needed for each frame... which means I have to find the "golden middle" between good quality, no audio stuttering and best performance...

I'm not offended at all... It's just like comparing Mini to Hammer...

I do not want to compete or compare with you (btw didn´t you start comparing and asking me to do the same ?) and I also see this is not fair or possible since we use diferent scenes, sources and of course aspect ratio. I never even wanted to, really. I just say what I see and think, nothing about you or us.

As I said before I couldn´t do better than you yet with full res pic vid - I tried but didn´t succeed in any way. So I came to the conclusion that this is the point where we as encoders can´t get further and the player has to be improved.

If I would cut out a special scene and send you (as a download) would you encode it in your way for me, as I would be interested in the results.. ???

Sorted · Post by **Sorted** » Fri Jan 27, 2006 9:43 am

To be honest i think there is a lot of fake science going on here!

its like a desperate for the holy grail of picture quality and i think its largely wishful thinking, cmon 11 passes!!!

imo the matrix demo was pretty poor all that ghosting

I think the main thing is a good quality source, i have done encodes as good as any i have seen here with Vdub and videora.

No need for all this rocket science.
If you are a noob or just fed up with quantisiser this, bit rate that & filter this and just want stunning quality just do this

videora -custom-2 pass-1000bitrate and u will great a great movie

or use the Vdub method- lanczos+about 15 sharpen

Kudos to Jonny for this top prog and malloc his extra controls

Eingang · Post by **Eingang** » Fri Jan 27, 2006 10:47 am

@Sorted

First, I am the only one here using that much passes.

Second, I do not use 11 passes normally, it was just a sample, an example, I tested lots of thing on this sample, and by coding this over and over I got many many passes.

Third noone called it "science" - that´s not true. For me it´s just fun.

I don´t care what you think about me and others encoding files anyhow. I look very close, want to see good results. Indeed I can see a difference between 2-pass and 7-pass, but I can´t see between 7 and 10pass, that´s the reason why I stop at seven normally. BTW I find it quite interesting to see what happens with such a lot passes, I mean, it is possible, if you like it and have time, why shouldn´t you try it ?

Videora is very buggy yet, although I like the results. But your suggestion does not produce high quality in most cases. That´s what I think. Now we should stop talking like this, it´s a technical forum, or not ? Anyone should do whatever he likes or not and in the end maybe one or another result/tip from one of those "desperated scientists" could help someone to save time and be a little bit happier.

zshadow · Post by **zshadow** » Fri Jan 27, 2006 12:07 pm

does xvid even support more than 2 passes? if so, please tell me how because I thought it was limited to 2 pass.

for the record, I encoded a 2-pass episode of "24" at 2598kbps / 128kbps audio, no stuttering at all. however, movie files are larger than tv shows, so possibly that affects disk performance, i am not sure.

i'll upload a sample later on to show you guys.