PS3 hardware compatibility analysis

[edepot]

Can someone please verify the accuracy of the following...

I believe there is a difference between NTSC and PAL versions
of PS3. And there are also differences between NTSC and PAL versions of
PS3 games. The NTSC versions of PS3 outputs at 60fps(hz) to the
screen while the PAL versions of PS3 outputs at 50fps(hz) to the screen.
Likewise the NTSC PS3 games output at 60fps(hz) and only run on
NTSC PS3, while the PAL PS3 games likewise at 50fps(hz). Currently
no PAL PS3 has been released (until March 07)

The versions that came out in Japan, USA (and other asian countries)
were NTSC PS3s. So they are not able to handle old PAL PS2 games
and may not even run old NTSC PS2 games because of region lock
(for example Japan PS3 can't run old US PS2 games). So this comes
down to compatibility....

A Japanese PS3 is NTSC/J
will run all NTSC PS3 games (regardless of region).
will run all NTSC/J PS2 games (that's japanese only PS2 games)
will run all same region DVDs (only DVD's in same region as Japan)
will run all US/Japan (same BD region) blueray (not europe).

A US PS3 is NTSC (USA)
will run all NTSC PS3 games (regardless of region)
will run all NTSC PS2 games from USA (not japan!)
will run all same region DVDs (only DVD's in same region as US).
will run all US/Japan (same BD region) blueray (not europe).

A HK/Taiwna PS3 is like the Japanese PS3 but
the PS2 games and DVD are locked for only their region.

The main point is, none of these NTSC PS3 will run a PAL game.

That is one of the reasons the PS3 was delayed for Europe (which
uses PAL). The exception is the Hong Kong area which uses both PAL and NTSC, but the HK PS3 only provides NTSC output so it caters to one
segment of those population.

Most modern screens these days support PAL and NTSC input.
The old ones are tied to the signal of the television signal, which
mean 50 or 60 hz. So the main question is, if the PAL PS3 comes out
(which would mean outputing PAL 50hz) it would not run the current
gambit of NTSC PS3 games unless it has the option of doing so built
into the firmware.

People importing the Japanese PS3 (or hongkong or taiwan PS3) into
the US, or the asian countries importing the US PS3 will find that
they can't play the PS2 games from their own region. Similarly
all PAL countries (lots of european states) can't run all their PS2 games
not only because of region, but because the the NTSC doesn's play
PAL games.

So the question is, how different is the PAL PS3 from the currently released NTSC PS3? Is it only a firmware update? Or is it in hardware?
Is the region code a chip or simply coded in a flashable area of memory.
The region coding from the old DVD/games era of PS2 may cause a lot
of incompatibly for importers of PS3's. The only sure thing about them
is that you can play PS3 games and blueray moves fine IF they are
NTSC versions.

[Alcahest]

hmm i really doubt anyone can answer your question since the PAL PS3 isn't out yet.
And euro publishers with TEST machine can't really answer either since the TEST machines are not like retail ones.
However, i don't think it's a problem for importers of a US/JP PS3 in Europe to not be able to play PAL games.
If they imported a PS3 from Asia/USA in the first place, it's most likely because they don't care for games released in their own regions.
Later,

Alcahest

[MelGibson]

A Japanese PS3 is NTSC/J
will run all NTSC PS3 games (regardless of region).
will run all NTSC/J PS2 games (that's japanese only PS2 games)
will run all same region DVDs (only DVD's in same region as Japan)
will run all US/Japan (same BD region) blueray (not europe).

A jap. PS3 will only play NTSC Region2 DVD's. So it will not play a PAL Region DVD making the jap. PS3 useless in Europe as a DVD Player.

[Shine]

I don't know about the games, but if you install Gentoo Linux, there is a Sony/IBM provided tool called ps3videomode, which allows the following modes:

YUV 60Hz 1:480i 2:480p 3:720p 4:1080i 5:1080p
YUV 50Hz 6:576i 7:576p 8:720p 9:1080i 10:1080p
RGB 60Hz 33:480i 34:480p 35:720p 36:1080i 37:1080p
RGB 50Hz 38:576i 39:576p 40:720p 41:1080i 42:1080p
VESA 11:WXGA 12:SXGA 13:WUXGA

At least my TV supports both 50Hz and 60Hz YUV modes.

[edepot]

So to summarize. Although Japan and Europe share the same DVD region, the NTSC and PAL differences extends to not only PS2 games but also to DVD discs. So not only does a PS3 have to be the same type
(NTSC or PAL) as the DVD (NTSC or PAL), but their region codes
must match as well. Under Linux OS however, it allows you to
bypass some restrictions on video (those discs without region lock or
user burned discs with region 0?) and play both NTSC and PAL DVD-ROM?

It should be noted that Japan orginally was in the same DVD region
as europe (DVD region 2), but this time around on Blu-Ray,
Japan is in the same region as USA (and North and South America)

http://www.edepot.com/science.html

contains the region codes of all countries for DVD and Blu-Ray.
HD-DVD doesn't have region codes.
As for NTSC and PAL countries list...

http://www.edepot.com/world.html

contains NTSC and PAL info detailed in individual country pages
(look it up).

I think I read somewhere someone placing a Region 2 PAL
DVD into a Japanese (Region 2 DVD) NTSC PS3 and it couldn't
play because of the mismatch between the NTSC and PAL even
though they are of the same region.

[asherkin]

I think I read somewhere someone placing a Region 2 PAL
DVD into a Japanese (Region 2 DVD) NTSC PS3 and it couldn't
play because of the mismatch between the NTSC and PAL even
though they are of the same region.

Absolutly True!
Just got my Jap(NTSC) PS3 a couple of days ago and when I went to play one of my english(PAL) DVDs, a error message came up to say that it can't output in the PAL format.

I THINK that that this will be fixed by the "massive" firmware update that will be apparently released in march (The launch of the PAL PS3s).

[Alcahest]

i doubt it.
JPN NTSC PS2s have never been able to play PAL R2 DVDs.
I don't see why it would be different on PS3.
Later,

Alcahest

[Schweet]

I also ran the same vid mode tests in Linux as Shine, both in the console, and within an application, and you can definitely set YUV and RGB 50Hz PAL modes. There will be no difference hardware wise for the PAL versions.

I think the poster of the thread is thinking there is some physical reason for the PAL delay. Its just supply issues, thats all. The PS3 manufacturing will not be ramped up enough until March (or later) to be able to supply an entire world wide demand.

Btw. I run my PS3 on a 240 50Hz power supply too. And according to some friends at Sony the only difference between the PAL and NTSC versions are purely firmware - much like the PSP for the UMD regions. So its pretty likely you will be able to firmware flash a Jap unit with a Euro firmware to get PAL region playbacks - no surprise if the HW is the same.

[Alcahest]

Not quite. like on PSP (UMD Region coding), the region coding for Bluray & DVD is not stored in the firmware.
And yeah, those Japanese PS3 run fine on 220v despite what the sticker on the bottom says ;)
Later,

Alcahest

[Shine]

And yeah, those Japanese PS3 run fine on 220v despite what the sticker on the bottom says ;)

That's no wonder. I've opened my PS3 before I plugged it into 220V and can confirm the Wikipedia article ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_3 ) that it has a universal power supply for 100-240V 50-60Hz (there is a label on the internal PS3 power supply module with these specifications). So it's just another try from Sony to make it harder for Europeans to get the PS3 before European release, like the legal actions against http://www.lik-sang.com/

[edepot]

I think it true that you can mod a PS2 to allow it to play another region.
Well if someone has been able to mod a NTSC PS2 and play PAL stuff
(hardware or software) then it will reveal how the NTSC and PAL PS3 are different (hardware or software). Perhaps it is hardware mod or
perhaps it is a software flash mod.

The following contains some secrets about the PS3...

[url]http://boardsus.playstation.com/playsta ... id=1001045[/url]

http://boardsus.playstation.com/playsta ... id=1001045

[deadsoul]

hey
guys i live in a PAL area and i just ordered my american PS3 with games, if you were me would you go for it, do you think it will work, my ps2 was modified to read NTSC do u think this can happen for PS3.

[JPedro]

hey
guys i live in a PAL area and i just ordered my american PS3 with games, if you were me would you go for it, do you think it will work, my ps2 was modified to read NTSC do u think this can happen for PS3.

There is ofcourse the possibility, but if you compare it to the XBox360 that uses the same type "protection" ie a hypervisor, they have been unable to modify that in anyway. Except for the dvd player to allow reading of copied discs. And that unit has been available for over a year now, so I wouldnt expect it anytime soon.

As for what type of DVD and BR you can play with the Japan PS3, I tried PAL Region 2 and NTSC Region 1 they did not work.
Only one I got to work was the NTSC Region 2 disc.

[Alcahest]

The region coding for DVD and BR is not the same.
For DVD, Jpn PS3 is zone2, which means it will only play Japan NTSC R2 DVDs. While it is the same region as europe, the hardware doesn't support PAL so R2 PAL DVDs do not work.

As for BR, jpn PS3 is region 1. It will play both USA BR and JPN BR.
Later,

Alcahest

[Blueyescyclone]

I think I read somewhere someone placing a Region 2 PAL
DVD into a Japanese (Region 2 DVD) NTSC PS3 and it couldn't
play because of the mismatch between the NTSC and PAL even
though they are of the same region.

Absolutly True!
Just got my Jap(NTSC) PS3 a couple of days ago and when I went to play one of my english(PAL) DVDs, a error message came up to say that it can't output in the PAL format.

I THINK that that this will be fixed by the "massive" firmware update that will be apparently released in march (The launch of the PAL PS3s).

Just to let u know sony will be doing a big firmware update in march for the PS3 launch. so that will be fixed so u will have no problem s.

[edepot]

NTSC PS3 still does not play PAL DVD-ROM discs (those without region codes). Maybe someone with a PAL PS3 can verify whether or not they can play NTSC DVD-ROM discs (not region coded). The 1.60 firmware did add some more video formats though (the NTSC PS3 can now playback PAL content created by Sony PAL specific video cameras). However, generic PAL DVD-ROMs are still not supported. It is odd, because under linux it is possible to play any format via VLC. I think I read somewhere that a PS2 NTSC machine can't playback PAL DVD-ROM, but a PS2 PAL machine can playback NTSC DVD-ROM. So this might extend to the PS3.

[mc]

Maybe someone with a PAL PS3 can verify whether or not they can play NTSC DVD-ROM discs (not region coded).

I just tested this on my EU PS3 with 1.60, and it gladly played both a region 2 NTSC disc (Neko no Ongaeshi) and a region 0 one (Dominion Tank Police). The output was in 480p on my BRAVIA.

[Blueyescyclone]

NTSC PS3 still does not play PAL DVD-ROM discs (those without region codes). Maybe someone with a PAL PS3 can verify whether or not they can play NTSC DVD-ROM discs (not region coded). The 1.60 firmware did add some more video formats though (the NTSC PS3 can now playback PAL content created by Sony PAL specific video cameras). However, generic PAL DVD-ROMs are still not supported. It is odd, because under linux it is possible to play any format via VLC. I think I read somewhere that a PS2 NTSC machine can't playback PAL DVD-ROM, but a PS2 PAL machine can playback NTSC DVD-ROM. So this might extend to the PS3.

i heard that all the things that people was hoping for in the 1.60 update is gonna happen in the 2.0 update just not sure when this happens i hope its true. when it comes to Japanese playing PAL DVD, PS2 games if they wanted to they could change that in the Software update. Lets hope they do.

[edepot]

Well, it seems the 1.60 firmware update did fix some things but not for all.

The Hong Kong NTSC PS3 can now play both NTSC and PAL DVDs (region 3 or region 0).
The European PAL PS3 can also play both NTSC and PAL DVDs (region 2 or region 0).

However!!!

The Japanese NTSC PS3 can only play NTSC DVDs (region 2 or region 0).
I think the same with the USA NTSC PS3 (region 1 or region 0 NTSC DVDs). Maybe someone with a USA NTSC PS3 can verify whether they can read DVD-ROM with PAL content (or PAL DVDs with region 1).

Region 0 means no region or DVD-ROMs.

It seems that Sony fixed some PAL and NTSC playback for certain PS3s (the Hong Kong and european PS3), but left some of the PS3 (japanese PS3 in particular) with no ability to read PAL content (even if they are of same region or no region). It seems they did make it so that both NTSC and PAL PS3s can play NTSC or PAL PS3 games. I don't know how they would do that though... Is it true that if you have a NTSC PS3 and you put in a PAL PS3 game, then the output is 1080p at 50Mhz? and if you put in a NTSC PS3 game the output is 1080p at 60Mhz? And if you use SD resolution one has 480lines and the other has 500 something lines? Maybe someone can test these things.

I hope in the end all NTSC PS3 can play any PAL content (of same region or no region). Because it is kinda stupid to just fix the Hong Kong version but leave the other NTSC PS3s still broken.

[ralferoo]

Because it is kinda stupid to just fix the Hong Kong version but leave the other NTSC PS3s still broken.

Well, Hong Kong is kind of special because some channels there broadcast in PAL, others in NTSC and so all TVs there just support both. Sony were getting a lot of stick because most Hong Kong DVDs are PAL and up until 1.60 they weren't supported, obviously.

Not sure why European machines would be allowed to play NTSC discs though - that doesn't really make sense.

[jadajada]

My eu PS3 does not play NTSC. Even after firmware upgrade.