PSP development on Linux - Your preferred distro?

DanielC · Post by **DanielC** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 10:51 pm

OK, i'm trying to toss up between three distro's for C/C++ development. I always used my Windows OS for programming, but now that I want to get into PSP I think i'd be better off getting into a "real" operating system for developing cross-platform stuff.

It'd be better than using Cygwin, MSYS or a not-up-to-date native Win32 toolchain I think.. do you?

Anyway, I am not a pro at Linux, but I have used it before. Not very much though. The three I am trying to decide between are:

Ubuntu 8.10
Fedora 10
openSUSE

I already have Ubuntu 8.10, but i've never used Ubuntu. I also have Fedora 10, and I have used it before, but not since 7. I also understand that Fedora has a lot more stuff than Ubuntu, but apparently Ubuntu is more user friendly.

openSUSE I heard was a great development platform, and it is also the only Linux distro that Micro$oft has their fingers in.

The only other distro I have used is Mandrake/Mandriva, but I had problems with it in the past. Driver stuff.

So what would you guys recommend? I know it's all down to personal choice really, but the thing is - i'm leaning towards Fedora as it's very mature and i've used it before, but Ubuntu seems to have a lot more "newbie guides" on the internet. Could the knowledge from an Ubuntu-based guide be RELATIVELY identical to a Fedora-based guide? Or do they have some major differences that could impede my PSP dev advancement...?

Thanks in advance for your reply - feel free to boast/brag about "Why so-and-so feature in this distro is so good", or whatever. Cheers.

EDIT: I apologise if this newbie question frustrates anyone - I know this is a forum for serious developers, not really for beginners. It's true I could have asked this question at a more busy forum (maxconsole, qj, etc.), but in an attempt to prevent biased or otherwise stupid advice, I thought to seek a recommendation directly from the source of where the veterans reside :)

Heimdall · Post by **Heimdall** » Fri Mar 13, 2009 12:29 am

DanielC wrote:OK, i'm trying to toss up between three distro's for C/C++ development. I always used my Windows OS for programming, but now that I want to get into PSP I think i'd be better off getting into a "real" operating system for developing cross-platform stuff.

It'd be better than using Cygwin, MSYS or a not-up-to-date native Win32 toolchain I think.. do you?

You can find up to date win32 toolchains that integrate well with VS2005/2008, Eclipse and CodeBlocks.

http://forums.ps2dev.org/viewtopic.php?t=9812

It is using GCC 4.3.3 and newlib 1.17 which is a bit higher than the official toolchain scripts (GCC 4.3.2 and newlib 1.16)

DanielC wrote:Anyway, I am not a pro at Linux, but I have used it before. Not very much though. The three I am trying to decide between are:

Ubuntu 8.10
Fedora 10
openSUSE

I already have Ubuntu 8.10, but i've never used Ubuntu. I also have Fedora 10, and I have used it before, but not since 7. I also understand that Fedora has a lot more stuff than Ubuntu, but apparently Ubuntu is more user friendly.

openSUSE I heard was a great development platform, and it is also the only Linux distro that Micro$oft has their fingers in.

The only other distro I have used is Mandrake/Mandriva, but I had problems with it in the past. Driver stuff.

So what would you guys recommend? I know it's all down to personal choice really, but the thing is - i'm leaning towards Fedora as it's very mature and i've used it before, but Ubuntu seems to have a lot more "newbie guides" on the internet. Could the knowledge from an Ubuntu-based guide be RELATIVELY identical to a Fedora-based guide? Or do they have some major differences that could impede my PSP dev advancement...?

Thanks in advance for your reply - feel free to boast/brag about "Why so-and-so feature in this distro is so good", or whatever. Cheers.

EDIT: I apologise if this newbie question frustrates anyone - I know this is a forum for serious developers, not really for beginners. It's true I could have asked this question at a more busy forum (maxconsole, qj, etc.), but in an attempt to prevent biased or otherwise stupid advice, I thought to seek a recommendation directly from the source of where the veterans reside :)

You should be careful with the latest Ubuntu since lots of people complain about it's default compiler to crash or being unable to compile the toolchain, requiring you to use the old GCC 4.2 series.

I don't want to start a flame war on linux versus windows, but if you don't feel confortable with it, maybe the best is to use a simpler approach such as the andlinux. With it you can have the best of both OSes, you run windows for your stuff and also run linux as an windows driver with ubuntu for the stuff you cannot do on windows.

I prefer it to Cygwin which works but is heavy and slow. Also I prefer it because I work mostly on laptops and most of the times it is a mess to get all the drivers for them, andLinux has the advantage that you don't need drivers, you use the windows ones.

DanielC · Post by **DanielC** » Fri Mar 13, 2009 12:45 am

Hey thanks a lot for the speedy reply :)

Well I actually tried the native Win32 builds of the toolchain, I didn't know they were so up to date! I tried it with Eclipse but the guide refers to an older version, and I had no idea where the newer Eclipse IDE moved all it's menu stuff - I couldn't figure it out.

In Cygwin though, I was up and running within the hour. But yewah, as you said - it's very slow.

However I just found your guide on using it in VS2008 Express! Excellent work!

P.S. I was about to install Ubuntu as it's smaller, looks like i'll go for Fedora 10 now if I need to - it never let me down in the past either.

So that's decided.

And FYI, I own a copy of VMWare 6.5 ACE Edition and was going to put a light-ish Linux PSP enironment into a standalone VMWare Player to take to work and such with me (I have a lot of spare time/waiting at work).

Thanks again! Kudos!

NoEffex · Post by **NoEffex** » Fri Mar 13, 2009 10:54 am

I'm using fedora 10 with countless things compiled from source, some packages, some this and that, and it's worked fine for me so far.

Is your OS 64 or 32 bit?

DanielC · Post by **DanielC** » Fri Mar 13, 2009 3:46 pm

I'm currently running Server 2008 64-bit as my primary OS.

jum · Post by **jum** » Sat Mar 14, 2009 8:21 pm

Hi

I use Ubuntu 8.10, with Geany as my IDE, for making cross-platform C++ stuff.

Geany is a bit lightweight, but it does what I need until I need to do something more hardcore.

Ubuntu's default installation is a bit light on dev tools, but you can just install what you need from Package Manager anyway, so it'snot really an issue.

- jum

sauron_le_noir · Post by **sauron_le_noir** » Sat Mar 14, 2009 11:22 pm

hi
i'm currently using fedora 10 for all the devs.

Torch · Post by **Torch** » Sun Mar 15, 2009 2:00 am

DanielC wrote:I'm currently running Server 2008 64-bit as my primary OS.

Since you're already on Server 2008 just save yourself the hassle and use Cygwin. It works like a charm on XP x64. Everything compiles from the Linux sources without modification.

And the best part is all the compiled stuff are exe files and they run fine OUTSIDE Cygwin. You can just directly point gcc.exe and all the other toolchain stuff straight from whatever IDE you want to use like CodeBlocks or VisualStudio. (VS is a bit more complex, but its the god of IDEs once its setup).

DanielC · Post by **DanielC** » Sun Mar 15, 2009 9:37 pm

Cygwin is what I have been trying to use, but it seems to have random problems for stuff that needs SDL - I probably stuffed something up there though. I also see errors like "-mno-cygwin: unknown parameter" when trying make some stuff - something like that anyway, that's just off memory.

But i'm going to give MSYS a try, if not then i'll give Fedora 10 in VMWare a go.

Thanks a lot for all your suggestions guys!

Wally · Post by **Wally** » Sun Mar 15, 2009 9:39 pm

I use OSX.. although its not a linux distro :)

Torch · Post by **Torch** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 12:24 am

Yes SDL doesn't work well on stock Cygwin. There are missing files.

Heimdall · Post by **Heimdall** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 7:15 pm

did you install both the bin and dev packages? usually cygwin slits them both. The bin packages contain the dlls and other required files and the dev contain the headers, docs, scripts...

coolkehon · Post by **coolkehon** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 9:05 pm

i hope its ok and dont mean to intrude but i'm actually about to format my hard drive and dual mabye triple boot windows vista 64, ubuntu 8.10, and one more linux distribution the only problem is i want the last one to be just for developing which linux distribution would be best for me cause i like eclipse and i do html,java,javascript,c,c++ and others that i try to learn has anyone got any suggestion for the last linux distribution that would work well on a compaq presario c700

sauron_le_noir · Post by **sauron_le_noir** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 5:13 am

Why not using virtualbox ;)
install linux on your pc and fire a virtualbox XP with desktop integration
and you have the best of the 2 world. New version support also
3D acceleration ;)

coolkehon · Post by **coolkehon** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 6:02 am

cause i want it on my system and vista uses alot of memory and i only got 2 gigs

DanielC · Post by **DanielC** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 10:38 am

@Wally:
I used to use OSx86 on my old P4 as I actually do like the OS, but my current AMD mainboard has an unsupported chipset (780G) for enabling Quartz or QE or whatever it is (even though I have a 9600GT videocard)

@Torch:
I already decided to get rid of Cygwin for that reason. It will be too hard to port things to PSP with the troublesome SDL issues.

@Heimdall
I installed the ENTIRE Cygwin package overnight, binaries and source, for everything. Massive, but I wanted to make sure I had everything haha! Still had to install SDL manually though from the web.

@coolkehon
You asked pretty much the same question that i'm asking lol, so while you did hijack the thread you hijacked it with a near identical question lol! I'm not a complete Newbie to Linux and have alkready decided on Fedora 10 to eventually install, but if are trying to decide what distro to use for anything, whether it be development or whatever, then it's entirely up to you - but i'd go with one of the major distro's so you can find support easier. Such as Fedora, OpenSUSE, Ubuntu, and some more that I can't remember. Mandriva is a very good full-featured distro for newbies, but im unsure how good it is for software design. Also check out these sites for some reading and other info:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_dist ... stribution
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison ... tributions
http://distrowatch.com/

EDIT: Something to take note of is on the second link, the comparison, to find what the distro is based on (under "Base distribution"). This can help with finding software and support. For example, RPM files are a 'Redhat Package' which is a software setup best supported for being installed on Redhat based distro's such as Fedora.

...and by the way, I "only" have 2GB of RAM and am running Server 2008 x64 (server version of Vista in other words), VMWare runs great on any VM that I set to use 512MB. But I also have an Athlon X2, which apparently has nifty virtualization code in the CPU.

...anyway, ummm... well i've pretty much made up my mind with Fedora 10 I think and can't think of any other questions right now, so feel free to rant on guys =P Thanks a bunch for all your responses!

coolkehon · Post by **coolkehon** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 2:02 am

cool i'm running dual boot ubuntu (+ gnome and kde desktop installed) and windows vista with 2gb of ram on a compaq presario c700 but i'm gonna wipe the hard drive and put windows vista 64 bit onlything is for ubuntu i cant get those driver for the internet to work when i first start up and now that i have them working i still have the problem with a kernel error that happens if i touch the touchpad too soon it will start the caps lock blinking and i will have to hold power button and restart any suggestions since i'm going with this disto

DanielC · Post by **DanielC** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 1:21 pm

coolkehon wrote:cool i'm running dual boot ubuntu (+ gnome and kde desktop installed) and windows vista with 2gb of ram on a compaq presario c700 but i'm gonna wipe the hard drive and put windows vista 64 bit onlything is for ubuntu i cant get those driver for the internet to work when i first start up and now that i have them working i still have the problem with a kernel error that happens if i touch the touchpad too soon it will start the caps lock blinking and i will have to hold power button and restart any suggestions since i'm going with this disto

Ubuntu is a very immature Linux distro compared to other major players such as Fedora and Mandriva, who have been in the game for nearly a decade (possibly more). Mandriva is formerly known as Mandrake.

Ubuntu is also only a "midi" distro, taking up a CD, unless the newest has changed. Naturally, the at-least-one-DVD releases of Fedora and such will usually have a lot more included software and drivers.

Ubuntu is also based on Debian, and Fedora is based on Red Hat. It's debatable, but most agree that Red Hat Foundation are pretty much the leading team on Linux technology. There are many who are loyal to Debian-based Linux though.

I also hear about a lot more problems with Ubuntu for professional stuff, namely for Server operations and software design (the included compiler in 8.10 was completely broken apparently). But that's kinda natural because as I said, Ubuntu is only young compared to others.

Keep in mind that I am only going off the litle knowledge I have of Linux, others will definately say "you're full of sh*t" from what I have said, this is simply because the world of Linux lacks standards and integrity compared to the monopolizing capitalists at Microsoft... lol. Such is life, everything is inferior in some way. Also note that i'm refering to mainly Fedora, as i've been an on-again-off-again fan of it (and Mandriva).

Ubuntu is apparently not really a good choice for professional production, according to some Linux guru's, simply because it's designed as a Desktop OS. Mandriva is also a desktop-targeted OS, and I think it's way nicer than Ubuntu. For office work and end-users, that is. It's also rated as a great choice for people trying to merge from Windows > Linux, it was a design goal for Ubuntu to appeal to Windows users. But of course, each to their own. And the great thing about Linux is that you can do whatever the damn you wish with it - IF you know how.

*Awaits Microsoft-bashing criticism from those who know way more than me...*

coolkehon · Post by **coolkehon** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 8:58 pm

your full of shiat ubuntu is good and i just upgraded the compiler i think anyway i'm just joking i'm fairley new to linux and ubuntu was the easiest to get because so many people have the cds and there was a ubuntu day where they installed it(did not go) but i had/have problems with the drivers first getting the wirless driver atheros for my computer to work (dont remember how i did it but i did it) and my touchpad will crash ubuntu alot if i touch it to soon or if ubuntu just decides oops i'm dead restart me blinky caps lock

how is mandrake with drivers and i've heard about it before it comes up alot so does openSuse got any reviews

Torch · Post by **Torch** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 9:19 pm

Its safe to say that you're better off with any Linux OS if you want to make the most of the SDK and other tools. Just run it in VirtualBox or something, its VERY fast, even faster than actually installing it on your harddisk. Stick to Windows for other tasks, its simply better as a desktop OS IMO.

coolkehon · Post by **coolkehon** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 9:29 pm

i think i'm going to try them with virtual box first and then install whichever one i like

which is better vmware or virtual box and should i install windows first or linux for a dual boot i remember there was an order but i dont remember so i figured while your answering this question you could tell me although from my experience i'm guessing windows first so i can overwrite windows boot thingy

Torch · Post by **Torch** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 9:43 pm

I haven't used any recent version of VMWare. But the latest VirtualBox is excellent. It seamlessly joins your existing network and USB and all that.

Either way. NTLDR can chainload GRUB to boot Linux if you add it in boot.ini. If windows is already installed, it detects when you install Linux and you can add an entry for Windows in GRUB.

coolkehon · Post by **coolkehon** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 10:04 pm

thanks now i got it expanded(not limed down) to openSuse, ubuntu with reinstalled compiler, fedora, or mandrake well thanks now i gotta go try all of these

DanielC · Post by **DanielC** » Thu Mar 19, 2009 1:19 pm

Ubuntu is the easiest to install for dualboot. You can actually do it from Windows, as long as you have enough HDD space. It will resize partitions and everything and add the chainload grub for you

Haha yeah, Ubuntu is pretty damn good, it's gotten popular so quick. And as Torch said, for the SDK they all pretty much share the same process and libraries and stuff.

Windows is good for anything that needs heavy multimedia IMO. Of course that includes gaming!

And yea, VirtualBox is getting more and more powerful like VMWare is every day. The USB and ETHERNET bridging have been in VMWare for some time, but I never knew Virtualbox had them now! That's heaps good.

Torch · Post by **Torch** » Thu Mar 19, 2009 1:25 pm

VirtualBox could always bridge, but previously it involved creating a virtual adapter in network connections which you had to manually bridge in Windows to your actual connection. This had its share of problems.

Now it uses an NDIS filter on all network connections, so you can simply click on which network you want to join in VirtualBox and all your packets are forwarded to that physical network.

pegasus2000 · Post by **pegasus2000** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 4:22 am

I'd install this operating system...

http://visilab.unime.it/~filippo/Nanode ... _0_3_7.rar

:))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

J.F. · Post by **J.F.** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 6:33 am

It's not an OS, it's a desktop environment. The PSP libs are still the OS.

pegasus2000 · Post by **pegasus2000** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 6:54 am

J.F. wrote:It's not an OS, it's a desktop environment. The PSP libs are still the OS.

Yes, yes, ok :)))

I said only that this file contains a Virtual Machine for Virtual Box that
is an Ubuntu Linux distribution (with nd preinstalled and ready to
work, but there is also a copy of PSPSDK...)

J.F. · Post by **J.F.** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 8:36 am

pegasus2000 wrote:
J.F. wrote:It's not an OS, it's a desktop environment. The PSP libs are still the OS.
Yes, yes, ok :)))

I said only that this file contains a Virtual Machine for Virtual Box that
is an Ubuntu Linux distribution (with nd preinstalled and ready to
work, but there is also a copy of PSPSDK...)

Oh, I see. You have a pre-setup OS and toolchain there to help with developing. I thought that was just the development package. :)

goumba · Post by **goumba** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 10:30 am

I use Debian Lenny (http://www.debian.org/) on an old iBook G4 and an HP Turion64 laptop. I have had nothing but a good experience with it.

I had previously used Ubuntu (7.04 through 8.10) but starting with 8.10 starting having problems with the toolchain. On the HP, 8.10-amd64 refused to build the toolchain (ar: -Qy option not recognized when building binutils), and trying various versions of the tools got no where.

Ubuntu 8.10 on the powerpc just broke (linked with bad glib from what I understand) some essential utilities like file managers, etc.

I had also used FreeBSD (both alone and in virtualbox) for a while with no problems with the toolchain. I'd still be using it if the ppc port was mature.

For an editor, I use emacs22 (it can also be used as an IDE but I don't). Another excellent (IMO) IDE is Code::Blocks (http://www.codeblocks.org/).

forums.ps2dev.org

PSP development on Linux - Your preferred distro?

PSP development on Linux - Your preferred distro?

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Ubuntu 8.10

Re: PSP development on Linux - Your preferred distro?