PSP LCD Screen [?]

kry.sys · Post by **kry.sys** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 3:10 pm

cool! thanks for showing me that i didn't search first ;) im a bad poster.

but in my colorful rant i guess i was trying to say that samsung usually tells people when they do something. so if they were making LCDs for the psp then we will eventually know via these press releases. which as we've seen may come out weeks after it occurs.

and i've looked through 2 parts catalogues, samsung doesn't make any LCDs that match specs that would work or fit in a psp (YET as of print - FEB 2005).. sharp now makes 2

im not saying samsung will never make them for the psp im just saying i want the real news.

rumors aren't bad... its just that i searched around and found SO many other people making claims with no real support.

blah blah blah.. who's gonna open their NA psp?.. me again?????? please no i already broke one and now im unsure of myself... any volunteers?

Post by **ooPo** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 3:52 pm

I might see about picking one up, actually. I'm a sucker for launch day madness. :)

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 4:18 pm

ooPo wrote:I might see about picking one up, actually. I'm a sucker for launch day madness. :)

Oopo, do I need to start another round of Polls of "How many PSP's do you have ?" and "How many PSP's in your graveyard ?" ;)

Post by **ooPo** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 4:31 pm

I think you're ahead of me on that. :)

kry.sys · Post by **kry.sys** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 5:09 pm

whew... im not alone...

Hazuki · Post by **Hazuki** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 12:29 am

if anyone wants to see a clip from the matrix reloaded smith fight with the worst ghosting stuff ive seen, let me know, dont know where to host etc etc, but tell me what to do and i'll put it somewhere.

Klendathu · Post by **Klendathu** » Sun Mar 27, 2005 10:51 pm

a german professional IT mag (called c't) with a knack for toys tested the response time of the psp and measured that it takes the display 100ms to switch from total black to total white. this is of course very bad, BUT it is less visible than it sounds PLUS
if you lower the response time you have to crank up the power to reach good contrast values. which would also strain the battery even more. not speaking of the led themselves, which have to be better to make this happen.

if you think the ds is any better you are wrong

just load any jpeg with black parts into the psp and then move it around, you'll see how bad response time is. having seen this I believe ridge racer simply is hardware blurring which has nothing to do with the chip calculating anything.

maybe sometime, we get a refresh psp with better display, but for the moment we are stuck with 100ms which means 10 unblurred frames per second.

acrh2 · Post by **acrh2** » Mon Mar 28, 2005 11:00 am

Awhite wrote:Ok, the video file is ready! :)
It's a part of garfield, try to play it back on your psp.
TAKE A CLOSE LOOK at the table's feet.(which are black)

Sorry for the zip file, geocities doesn't allow .mp4 files

www.geocities.com/ik_temp/M4V66666.zip

I think it must be the mpeg4 encoding (although i tried various ways, even the IC2).

P.S it actually looks like the color is bleeding or something :S

Do you mind posting the original clip in mp2 or avi format? I've been playing around testing different ways to encode for PSP, and I've seen this before, and it was artifact of bad encoding. Using a different method to encode I was able to solve this ghosting problem.
Now, I just want to make sure that it isn't your encoding technique.:)

Davediego · Post by **Davediego** » Tue Mar 29, 2005 9:58 am

play untold legends, there is a LOT of ghosting with any charecter movement. I'm also seeing what appears to be overheating artifacts with this game (texture tearing and "sparkling") :(

Pitas · Post by **Pitas** » Tue Mar 29, 2005 10:49 am

Klendathu wrote:a german professional IT mag (called c't) with a knack for toys tested the response time of the psp and measured that it takes the display 100ms to switch from total black to total white. this is of course very bad, BUT it is less visible than it sounds PLUS
if you lower the response time you have to crank up the power to reach good contrast values. which would also strain the battery even more. not speaking of the led themselves, which have to be better to make this happen.

if you think the ds is any better you are wrong

just load any jpeg with black parts into the psp and then move it around, you'll see how bad response time is. having seen this I believe ridge racer simply is hardware blurring which has nothing to do with the chip calculating anything.

maybe sometime, we get a refresh psp with better display, but for the moment we are stuck with 100ms which means 10 unblurred frames per second.

ridge racer seems to have to much blur....by the looks it's hardware related...but one thing is bodering me wich tells me that this does not have anything to do with hardware limits.....but...maybe to save battery life, if you look at the intro video you don't see this effect...maybe...because the lcd is put at a different refresh rate!

btw: great community!

Awhite · Post by **Awhite** » Tue Mar 29, 2005 10:16 pm

People with spiderman UMD, (not me :(, i got a jap ver) said that the video on black scenes is fine. no blurs or anything else. Can any1 try pls?

kry.sys · Post by **kry.sys** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 7:37 am

no im still boggled by this one.. the first time i watched the movie on my na psp there was zero blur. but that unit had 9 dead pixels in it. so i returned it and got one with 8 dead pixels and more blur in the movie. so i figured it was the lighting. so i went back to the originating light source at home and i noticed more blur.. put the umd in my jap psp and noticed the same blur.. (one particulart part where peter is walking into is back yard to take out the trash after his birthday party. his face is all warped from the blur. also on scene switches you can see people lips and eyes on the next scene over someone elses forehead and what not)... anyway.. i took that psp back and got yet another one with finaly only 1 dead pixel.( my jp unit has at least 10, how hard is this to get right?) this one had no blur the first time i watched the movie... then after i played some games i started noticing blur in the grill of the cars in ridge racer.. later my wife wanted to see it play movies and i showed her and noticed BLUR.. grrrr i noticed this on and off wall power on both jap and na systems now. but it seems that sometimes the sytem does something to minimize since wipeout pure seems to have WAY less blur.

Awhite · Post by **Awhite** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 4:04 pm

That's a bit re-assuring, maybe sony will fire up a new update with a fix. IF this is actually a software problem. I hope it is.

otakucode · Post by **otakucode** » Fri Apr 01, 2005 1:07 pm

Just to add my 2 cents here... I've noticed significant ghosting on my PSP exactly once. And that one time was when my PSP had been left in my family room/basement area overnight where it gets pretty cold. The LCD itself was pretty cold, probably 40-50F I would guess. I've noticed this with other LCD products, I'm sure it's just inherent in their nature. Besides that one time, I have never noticed ghosting and I have been looking for it since reading posts like this one. If it was happening, I am sure I would notice it because the game I've been playing the most is Need for Speed Underground Rivals and the car I'm using is black end-to-end. It is where I noticed the ghosting that one time, but haven't since.

Davediego · Post by **Davediego** » Fri Apr 01, 2005 5:34 pm

Awhite wrote:People with spiderman UMD, (not me :(, i got a jap ver) said that the video on black scenes is fine. no blurs or anything else. Can any1 try pls?

I gave this a try, blacks and reds at least blur, and if you can't notice it you are blind or you have no idea what proper image quality is. Now granted, its not a TON of blur but I'm assuming this movie is only running at 24fps. If you have a game running at 60fps things are going to be significantly worse.

Davediego · Post by **Davediego** » Fri Apr 01, 2005 5:40 pm

otakucode wrote:Just to add my 2 cents here... I've noticed significant ghosting on my PSP exactly once. And that one time was when my PSP had been left in my family room/basement area overnight where it gets pretty cold. The LCD itself was pretty cold, probably 40-50F I would guess. I've noticed this with other LCD products, I'm sure it's just inherent in their nature. Besides that one time, I have never noticed ghosting and I have been looking for it since reading posts like this one. If it was happening, I am sure I would notice it because the game I've been playing the most is Need for Speed Underground Rivals and the car I'm using is black end-to-end. It is where I noticed the ghosting that one time, but haven't since.

I don't have NFS so I can't comment specifically on it, but I would assume in a racing game your car is going to be in a relatively fixed position on the screen at all times, ie the center bottom. As such, if your car is all black those pixels at the center bottom of the screen are going to be black most of the time and simply change to other dark hues, not to white.

Now, if you had a black square on a white background and started bouncing it around the screen ala pong, THEN you would see ghosting all over the place because the pixels will be transitioning from black to white immeadeately with no intermediate colors. Black to white is typically the worst response time on an lcd.

Guys dont expect a firmware fix to change any of this, response time along with viewing angle is pretty much a fixed physical parameter of the LCD screen itself. Ghosting/blurring isn't going to go away without getting a difference screen.

Cogboy · Post by **Cogboy** » Fri Apr 01, 2005 6:06 pm

otakucode wrote:Just to add my 2 cents here... I've noticed significant ghosting on my PSP exactly once. And that one time was when my PSP had been left in my family room/basement area overnight where it gets pretty cold. The LCD itself was pretty cold, probably 40-50F I would guess. I've noticed this with other LCD products, I'm sure it's just inherent in their nature.

this is where i think the problem is. i don't have any experience with this, but my guess is that the response time of the lcd is rather sensitive to temperature. could someone compare response times between when their psp is both hot and cold?

Awhite · Post by **Awhite** » Fri Apr 01, 2005 9:11 pm

Now, if you had a black square on a white background and started bouncing it around the screen ala pong, THEN you would see ghosting all over the place

Well the crazy part is... that I DID! I made a video file with a black square going updown/left/right but it DIDN"T BLUR :S

Playing any other video file ... and it blurs :S

Grover · Post by **Grover** » Sat Apr 02, 2005 2:19 am

Hi, back again. I made a movie with a black 'pole' moving left to right (with studio max), and it 'seemed' to blur?? I say seemed, because it wasnt as apparent as the garfield clip, but it did have similar looking results. Sorry, AWhite I took so long to get back (work has been insane). You made one with a black square and it didnt? geez.. this is getting bizarre.. is it possible that its to do with the amount of moving data per frame? Maybe the mpg playback is limited and its just not keeping up, and maybe what we are seeing is frame delayed rendering? (although that seems a very whacky possibility). What happens if you make the black square really large? Also, what brightness setting do you run with (so I can use the same level).

Davediego · Post by **Davediego** » Sat Apr 02, 2005 3:19 am

Awhite wrote:
Well the crazy part is... that I DID! I made a video file with a black square going updown/left/right but it DIDN"T BLUR :S

Playing any other video file ... and it blurs :S

an mpg isn't going to be the best way to test this, what fps did you encode at? And what speed was the box translating accross the screen? To come up with the worst case scenario for video the box would need to move AT LEAST one pixel on the psp's screen every single frame. This really should be done with a program however so the fps can be cranked up further.

and who knows, maybe black to white isnt the worst response time on the psp's lcd.

junker · Post by **junker** » Sat Apr 02, 2005 3:53 pm

yeah, i was so happy when i first got my psp and noticed there were no dead pixels. then i got even happier when i saw the crazy image quality of the spiderman umd.

then i got sad after seeing it ghost like mad :( what the hell was sony thinking? the videos would be so great to watch on this if it wasn't for the ghosting issues.

and why is it that wipeout pure seems to not ghost AT ALL?

Post by **Warren** » Sat Apr 02, 2005 4:50 pm

I didn't notice Spiderman UMD ghosting yet but I encoded an episode of 24 and it ghosts like mad (many dark scenes).

LCDs are in fact extremely sensitive to temperature although they're usually fine at a comforatble room temperature. The colder the display, the slower the refresh rate, the hotter the temp the faster it is until it heats up too much and you get dead pixels.

junker · Post by **junker** » Sat Apr 02, 2005 6:55 pm

i dunno, my room is fairly cool yet my pc lcd panel neverrr ghosts. it must be the weakling lcds sony used for the psp

Awhite · Post by **Awhite** » Sat Apr 02, 2005 7:12 pm

but I encoded an episode of 24 and it ghosts like mad (many dark scenes).

Welcome to my world :( I love 24 and hate that i can't watch it nicely :(

I've tested (i'll get the up for you if you want.) :

SQUARE + TRIANGLE + X + CIRCLE OBJECTS moving around the screen.
It seemed like blurring but it wans't as obvious as the garfield scene or any other scene! It was an acceptable blur.

1 black 30 pixels line on white background moving left right.
It had an acceptable blur. Nothing like the garfield or any other video has.

1 black 30 pixels line on orange background moving left right.
It had an acceptable blur. Nothing like the garfield or any other video has.

1 white 30 pixels line on black background moving left right. Same.
It had an acceptable blur. Nothing like the garfield or any other video has.

All these videos were uncompressed avi files and converted using sony's IC 2.0 into 320x240 video.

DBG · Post by **DBG** » Sun Apr 03, 2005 12:47 pm

junker wrote:yeah, i was so happy when i first got my psp and noticed there were no dead pixels. then i got even happier when i saw the crazy image quality of the spiderman umd.

then i got sad after seeing it ghost like mad :( what the hell was sony thinking? the videos would be so great to watch on this if it wasn't for the ghosting issues.

and why is it that wipeout pure seems to not ghost AT ALL?

You should still feel lucky. I am going to replace my PSP whenever the local store gets more in stock because of dead pixels. I love Gamestop's extended warrenty though, it has saved me with every console i've bought recently (what's up with quality control people?!).

Klendathu · Post by **Klendathu** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 11:42 pm

strange, so far I've seen three PSPs and ZERO dead pixels.
However the third one had a fracture between the backgroundlighning and the actual LCDs. this tiny fissure resulted in a visible red line. I took a look with an eyepiece and it was no damage to the exterior casing or any dead pixel.