UMD Format
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Guest
Thats nice. You could leave it at that, or you could actually do a little more indepth work on the subject and take a UMD and a MD and explain precisely why and how they look alike.KaL wrote:Well.. Maybe I'm wrong.. but for me the UMD REALLY looks like a MD :/
That way, you don't have to have that uncertain feeling inside about whether you are wrong, and neither will we.
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thephantomkiller
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2005 12:00 pm
re
Cloning the casing of the UMD is a very simple task. First you have to sacrifice one orignal UMD.
Make a Platnium based 2 part silicone mold off of both the front and back of the case and include an area with a pour spout made from a solid clynder (to pour the resin in).
You may need to alter the case futher before molding it, like making holes for small glasses screws to conjoin the duplicate halfs created from your mold together.
www.smoothon.com (smoothcast 300 resin- located in liquid plastic section) and www.silicones-inc.com (use gi-1000 silicone w/ blue catalyst)This is the correct silicone/resin needed to make this a reality for testing puposes.
All too easy.
Some one should give this a try. Also if the metal plate in the center of the UMD is not on any MD's you can cast a resin back up of this by making a 2 part mold off an original in silicone and casing the resin clone from that with iron particals mixed in. I think a magnet on the top of the spindel is used to hold that part of the disc down on the motor, so this is an imperitive must too recreate. hope this helps
Make a Platnium based 2 part silicone mold off of both the front and back of the case and include an area with a pour spout made from a solid clynder (to pour the resin in).
You may need to alter the case futher before molding it, like making holes for small glasses screws to conjoin the duplicate halfs created from your mold together.
www.smoothon.com (smoothcast 300 resin- located in liquid plastic section) and www.silicones-inc.com (use gi-1000 silicone w/ blue catalyst)This is the correct silicone/resin needed to make this a reality for testing puposes.
All too easy.
Some one should give this a try. Also if the metal plate in the center of the UMD is not on any MD's you can cast a resin back up of this by making a 2 part mold off an original in silicone and casing the resin clone from that with iron particals mixed in. I think a magnet on the top of the spindel is used to hold that part of the disc down on the motor, so this is an imperitive must too recreate. hope this helps
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thephantomkiller
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2005 12:00 pm
Whoa.... Hehehe take it easy on me I'm new and not from around here. I mean no offence.
Anyone willing or needing such information should not be discuraged for trying it. Hence the quote "All To Easy"- Sorry, I'm a star wars junkie and I couldnt resist....
I sculpt prop replicas, make molds and silicone and latex castings of stuff all the time.
To me what we are trying to do in this topic, unless I'm really not reading it right. Is figure out a way to make our on loadable PSP discs that could conceivably carry and play our own homebrew Mpeg4 and Atrac data.
I'm no programer, but I too have seen these various companies out there offering blank minidiscs and recorders. Recorders that are under the 200 dollar range. My mind has pondered the following figurative question since the UMD and PSP was annouced.
"How hard would it be to mod/force a mini dics recorder to write/encode Mpeg4 and Atrac encoded data files made from your pc in order to make a mini disc movie playable on the psp at the same defaulted res and audio quality settings"
- I mean code is just text. Just a bunch of call functions and acronyms that work through accepted association. Isn't there a way to make an interface that forces these store bought mini disc recorder to write onto the disc the code you want using a conection/homebrew'program between it and the PC either by usb or the parallel port
If the minidisc- disc is the same size as the PSP umd. Has the same sized readable pits on that disc. Then the burner is a programers task and the carrier is a mold makers task.
The problem exists in the cartridge holding the disc first. So you have to make a swapable case. First step make the case- Then someone with programing knowledge has to figure a way to reconfigure/program a mini disc recorder to interface with a standard pc to write the correct file strings.
:::Please dont make me look dumb:::
At least Thats what I'm hoping is possible. I'm just offering my best known idea on creating a swapable disc holder. You just insert the original Minidisc -disc into the psp clone cart, and place it in the psp and play. The begining stages of testing the format. Well i mean once the original encrypted data that prevents any old disc from being read is bypassed or known. But you first need to burn the correct read data from a hacked minidisc recorder. Swap and play.
2 dollars a pop for full lenght movies and music is just too sweet to not try to figure out.
"Help me Take this mask off"
Anyone willing or needing such information should not be discuraged for trying it. Hence the quote "All To Easy"- Sorry, I'm a star wars junkie and I couldnt resist....
I sculpt prop replicas, make molds and silicone and latex castings of stuff all the time.
To me what we are trying to do in this topic, unless I'm really not reading it right. Is figure out a way to make our on loadable PSP discs that could conceivably carry and play our own homebrew Mpeg4 and Atrac data.
I'm no programer, but I too have seen these various companies out there offering blank minidiscs and recorders. Recorders that are under the 200 dollar range. My mind has pondered the following figurative question since the UMD and PSP was annouced.
"How hard would it be to mod/force a mini dics recorder to write/encode Mpeg4 and Atrac encoded data files made from your pc in order to make a mini disc movie playable on the psp at the same defaulted res and audio quality settings"
- I mean code is just text. Just a bunch of call functions and acronyms that work through accepted association. Isn't there a way to make an interface that forces these store bought mini disc recorder to write onto the disc the code you want using a conection/homebrew'program between it and the PC either by usb or the parallel port
If the minidisc- disc is the same size as the PSP umd. Has the same sized readable pits on that disc. Then the burner is a programers task and the carrier is a mold makers task.
The problem exists in the cartridge holding the disc first. So you have to make a swapable case. First step make the case- Then someone with programing knowledge has to figure a way to reconfigure/program a mini disc recorder to interface with a standard pc to write the correct file strings.
:::Please dont make me look dumb:::
At least Thats what I'm hoping is possible. I'm just offering my best known idea on creating a swapable disc holder. You just insert the original Minidisc -disc into the psp clone cart, and place it in the psp and play. The begining stages of testing the format. Well i mean once the original encrypted data that prevents any old disc from being read is bypassed or known. But you first need to burn the correct read data from a hacked minidisc recorder. Swap and play.
2 dollars a pop for full lenght movies and music is just too sweet to not try to figure out.
"Help me Take this mask off"
didnt you guys all get the demo disk with your psp? im sure that theres at least one of you that doesnt value the disk that much, i would but i dont have a minidisk at the moment, although i will try to pick one up in the next little while...
if not and anybody feels like experimenting, ill send you my demo disk, im not using it
MrBig
if not and anybody feels like experimenting, ill send you my demo disk, im not using it
MrBig
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neonenergy
- Posts: 11
- Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2005 4:42 am
finding the correct laser of the psp's disk reader, couldnt you mod a disk so that it would run on a reader with the same laser? The umd could be burned using the gamecube minidisk style however, with the out-in, or some other loony form. then theres the encoding and protection....
Im thinking that the umd is closer in form to a gamecube disk. could be wrong. is there some way to find out how the umd is burned by probing it with some device? looking under a microscope? but i digress
Im thinking that the umd is closer in form to a gamecube disk. could be wrong. is there some way to find out how the umd is burned by probing it with some device? looking under a microscope? but i digress
yes, umd's are layerd then pressed.
specifications are that of a small double layerd dvd with about the same density. (1.8G)
ripped from some random google search
Media:
UMD--Universal Media Disc, 60 mm diameter
660 nm laser diode
1.8 GB dual layer
11Mbps transfer rate
Shock-proof
Secure ROM by AES
Unique disc ID
---
blah blah blah
regular dvd reader writers use a 650nm and game cube uses 668nm ( i guess.. i googled all this stuff just now)
specifications are that of a small double layerd dvd with about the same density. (1.8G)
ripped from some random google search
Media:
UMD--Universal Media Disc, 60 mm diameter
660 nm laser diode
1.8 GB dual layer
11Mbps transfer rate
Shock-proof
Secure ROM by AES
Unique disc ID
---
blah blah blah
regular dvd reader writers use a 650nm and game cube uses 668nm ( i guess.. i googled all this stuff just now)
Last edited by kry.sys on Fri Apr 08, 2005 6:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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neonenergy
- Posts: 11
- Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2005 4:42 am
maybe we could get help from gc devers now that you say that... i think someones been working out that pressing system, but if you say that its pressed, wouldnt it be hard, very hard to burn a disk that works in a umd drive?
you would need some onboard software at least, but i suspect someone will eventually crack this. psp boot disk :D
maybe some external hardware.....
you would need some onboard software at least, but i suspect someone will eventually crack this. psp boot disk :D
maybe some external hardware.....
well it was a cute idea, but the laser tries to start reading the disc almost half way into the disc.it can't get a proper scan of the disc so it stops reading. So now everyone can get that out of their heads.
thank you :P
thank you :P
Last edited by Sarfa on Fri Apr 08, 2005 5:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
You can extend the motor axis and fit it beneat the laser unit to it can get a bit closer. I really am curious what the drive thinks of it. Even if we can read encrypted data, it's at least something we can do :)
Or we could hook up an FPGA or something and read it out slowly... although I don't have a clue where to look for the data.
Or we could hook up an FPGA or something and read it out slowly... although I don't have a clue where to look for the data.
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neonenergy
- Posts: 11
- Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2005 4:42 am
wow nice work sarfa :D good use of the dremel
so basically whats happening is the laser doesnt reach the whole disk, only half of it right?
also, it doesnt necasarilly have to be a psp drive. wouldnt a modded md drive also work? but that would be hard considering you have to place the umd into a md diskette and have it run... ill do some research
a laser to match the reader would be needed of course, they gotta have one of those somewhere
btw would dye be a problem here? maybe the psp only uses one dye for it's disks... wow this is getting (more) complicated.
so basically whats happening is the laser doesnt reach the whole disk, only half of it right?
also, it doesnt necasarilly have to be a psp drive. wouldnt a modded md drive also work? but that would be hard considering you have to place the umd into a md diskette and have it run... ill do some research
a laser to match the reader would be needed of course, they gotta have one of those somewhere
btw would dye be a problem here? maybe the psp only uses one dye for it's disks... wow this is getting (more) complicated.
again...
dvd:
650 nm laser diode
umd:
660 nm laser diode
gc:
668 nm laser diode
so yes you will need a drive from a working unit... then EVEN if you figured out the bus its going to be encrypted. its going to be encrypted all the way up to the proper handler. the disc might even spin in the opposite direction and read from the outside in.. i unno.. and im not saying dont do it.. im just giving you things to think about while you do it. i have a semi dead psp.. i might donate it for good :)
--darkfader...
"the" darkfader?
dvd:
650 nm laser diode
umd:
660 nm laser diode
gc:
668 nm laser diode
so yes you will need a drive from a working unit... then EVEN if you figured out the bus its going to be encrypted. its going to be encrypted all the way up to the proper handler. the disc might even spin in the opposite direction and read from the outside in.. i unno.. and im not saying dont do it.. im just giving you things to think about while you do it. i have a semi dead psp.. i might donate it for good :)
--darkfader...
"the" darkfader?
Well this was the first "hack" I've ever attempted. I'm not a hardware hacker by any means. I did it out of simple curiousity. I wouldn't have the first clue on how to change the motor axis to read further into the disc or to even reverse the motor's direction if that was needed. I'll leave that part of to those who atleast someone know what the hell they are doing. The dremel part was easy enough and getting the disc out of the case without damaging either the case or the disc was simple enough. The metal insert just pops right now. I did have a hell of a time trying to keep the disc on the motor while it was spinning to get it to try to read it. The drive I used was a very cheap LITEON HD166S (JLMS XJ-HD166S) bought at Wal-Mart for $40 a few months ago. It's by no means that great of a drive from my experience with it. But it was the only dvd drive I could use for this experiment.
go play a game which plays the music from the disc (like ridge racer)
suspend to ram mid game
turning the psp back on will start a disc authentification cycle
during this cycle the gameplay freezes and the music suspends
rip out the battery pack during this cycle
open the umd drive.
the laser is in the middle, thus authentification is there.
assuming that authentification is the first thing you put on a dsc, the umd
reads from the inside to the outside
to see whether is is clockwise or not, we'd have to remove the black top of the drive with the umd logo and turn the thing back on.
I'm sure it can be disassembled quite easily, but I'm not going to do it.
as for reading discs I believe that some wlan/usb exploit is the way to go.
like those tools which dump xbox discs using the 100mbit connection
suspend to ram mid game
turning the psp back on will start a disc authentification cycle
during this cycle the gameplay freezes and the music suspends
rip out the battery pack during this cycle
open the umd drive.
the laser is in the middle, thus authentification is there.
assuming that authentification is the first thing you put on a dsc, the umd
reads from the inside to the outside
to see whether is is clockwise or not, we'd have to remove the black top of the drive with the umd logo and turn the thing back on.
I'm sure it can be disassembled quite easily, but I'm not going to do it.
as for reading discs I believe that some wlan/usb exploit is the way to go.
like those tools which dump xbox discs using the 100mbit connection
But Why?
Whilst this is all very interesting I really don't understand why you are all going to this amount of effort when you can just run code off the MS Pro Duo.
It is obvious that no matter what the internal format of the UMD will be, the contents of the disk will contain encrypted PBP files just the same as the ROM upgrade. So you get them off the disk... now what? You still don't know the encryption key and oh look it seems exactly the same as the one you downloaded to upgrade your firmware.
Even if you worked out a way to write these using a MD recorder, you still do not have the ability to encrypt the data so it will work. The disk is very likely in a standard DVD format but with the executable and video files encrypted like from all other sources.
PS great effort Sarfa in laying this one to rest.
Steddy
It is obvious that no matter what the internal format of the UMD will be, the contents of the disk will contain encrypted PBP files just the same as the ROM upgrade. So you get them off the disk... now what? You still don't know the encryption key and oh look it seems exactly the same as the one you downloaded to upgrade your firmware.
Even if you worked out a way to write these using a MD recorder, you still do not have the ability to encrypt the data so it will work. The disk is very likely in a standard DVD format but with the executable and video files encrypted like from all other sources.
PS great effort Sarfa in laying this one to rest.
Steddy
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thephantomkiller
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2005 12:00 pm
re
Why... Because we could conceivabley take our entire dvd film collections and port them to work for a simple "pop and play" disc loading device for the psp.
I think this is a much better option then having to write and re-write to a overly expensive flash device what we want to see each time we want to see it. I have over a hundred horror titles on dvd, and I know some of them will never grace a UMD disc... Nor do I honestly want to pay for something I already own. That doesnt mean I wont. "Hellboy Here I come" but I dont want too.
Flash has a write limit, and it's price sucks! I mean come one 2 bucks a pop for a Minidisc. 200 for a recorder...
Also who's to say it cant be done. It's been done on other systems. Sure lets just discourage all from trying so it never is done. BS...
It can be done. It will be done.
I think this is a much better option then having to write and re-write to a overly expensive flash device what we want to see each time we want to see it. I have over a hundred horror titles on dvd, and I know some of them will never grace a UMD disc... Nor do I honestly want to pay for something I already own. That doesnt mean I wont. "Hellboy Here I come" but I dont want too.
Flash has a write limit, and it's price sucks! I mean come one 2 bucks a pop for a Minidisc. 200 for a recorder...
Also who's to say it cant be done. It's been done on other systems. Sure lets just discourage all from trying so it never is done. BS...
It can be done. It will be done.
Last edited by thephantomkiller on Sun Apr 10, 2005 3:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Neil Stevens
- Posts: 79
- Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2005 2:22 pm
- Location: California
- Contact:
Re: re
As long as you're honest about your having no inclination for doing development...thephantomkiller wrote:Why... Because we could conceivabley take our entire dvd film collections and port them to work for a simple "pop and play" disc loading device for the psp.
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thephantomkiller
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2005 12:00 pm
Hey I certianly would like to learn. I dont know anything beyond HTML code. I keep doing define terms searchs anytime I read you guys saying things like API, MIPS, NullCode.
I was thinking of maybe molding the psp's top face plate and making a wax cast from that mold, and then texturing it from there with a silicone stamp made off a textured surface, and then cutting out the screen area in the wax cast and getting a glass place to cut out a perfect sized high tempered glass plate to fit in this area (no more scratches or prints)
I'm gonna be involved with the psp in some constuctive maner. I wish I knew code. I'll make an effort to learn, read more, and talk less.
I was thinking of maybe molding the psp's top face plate and making a wax cast from that mold, and then texturing it from there with a silicone stamp made off a textured surface, and then cutting out the screen area in the wax cast and getting a glass place to cut out a perfect sized high tempered glass plate to fit in this area (no more scratches or prints)
I'm gonna be involved with the psp in some constuctive maner. I wish I knew code. I'll make an effort to learn, read more, and talk less.